So its exactly what I thought. Once I reached a certain level of performance it was clear I was being used to carry. (Instead of matching me with players of equal skill.) Thanks for at least admitting it so I dont waste my time anymore.
I quit.
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Sure it helps. It gives Supports more downtime to shoot stuff, without slacking on heals.
Also encourages Tanks/DPS stay within peeling range, and somewhat healing range.
And lowers toxicity to Support players by a lot.
And if it enables them to have the ideal durability of comps, then yeah
Who in Blizzard approved this garbage MM?. The damage is already done. Taking months to fix when this system should not have existed in first place.
It would have great if there was solo queue as well.
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It’s such a poor feeling to be Gold 5-3 while solo queing and playing against Diamond Challengers that proceed to steamroll my team. The game needs better transparency. It would make the play experience better.
Did both teams have a Diamond and I just couldn’t see mine?
Was this a disadvantage game my team was likely to lose so therefor we lost little MMR?
I don’t know any of this. All I can see is the Diamond Challenger on the enemy team killing my dps who keep positioning terribly.
The MMR rating has always been terrible expecially when trying to make division skill tiers look at rocket league its the same way you can manipulate way to easily. You need to put it back to sr ratings lile it first was in overwatch 1 had way closer matches good overtime fights and way less one sided game cause you can just pair within 100 sr on either side of the person which isnt very much diffrence just a win or 2 average. And let it change every game not every 7 wins or 20 loses. The 20 loses is just like you all say i know u dont belong here but but im going to make yoh not enjoy the game cuz u cant win and we arent droping your rank till u lose 20 time for real!!! It was a terrible idea iv seen people who cant even get 4k damage in a game be in a high gold game where im putting out 10k plus as a tank and you all think that person is on the same skill division we are? Your matching is way further off then u think it is go back to every match sr adjustments way better and was one of the best competitive matching i ever seen in games iv been playinh this game when season 1 started and played the whole way up till all the changes happened and things was horrid and got overwatch 2 hoping thinhs was fixed and well blizzard just made things worse like always
The solution is two opposite systems.
I’m a systems design engineer with over a decade of experience in software development alone (though I transitioned to neuroscience and AI research now) and I wrote up a quick solution to your problems. I really wish you guys would read it.
The issue, I believe, is that you started from an ELO design perspective at the beginning which was just utterly wrong from any scientific perspective, however there is an important issue of capturing complexities of teamwork only available from the win/loss perspective found in the ELO approach, which must still be considered. Personal metrics are generally too ignorant of - and even counter to - good team-play. However, at the bottom, team effects are almost non-existent and personal metrics are truly the meaningful effect to be captured.
Your MMR design perspective must flip at low ranks vs high ranks.
Low long term skill, low amounts of games played, new players, and smurfing at low ranks, together create deviations to large to be used. There’s too much chaos (non-reliable effects) at low ranks and that chaos can seep all the way up to Gold rank. (and possibly have aftershocks in even higher ranks)
In the design of Microsoft’s “TrueSkill” system they addressed issues of regression and long term (processing heavy) re-comparison etc that can suss out actual personal skill from small sets of data. Effects which are almost utterly washed out and proven to be (usually) barely better than random with anything less than enormous datasets per individual when attempting to use purely win/loss comparisons. (as I know you are)
The science is in. Every scientific paper on it shows that ELO methods for ranking individuals in team games is almost purely non-functional.
So, the solution I’ve proposed is customized to solve for your (less than optimal) design perspective and entirely for the purpose of reducing low rank chaos that constantly introduces widespread instability to your overarching system.
For low rank players you must use more basic personal metrics and almost wholly ignore win/loss but then slowly switch to win/loss as they rise through the ranks. (almost ignoring personal metrics at higher Ranks like currently already do)
Almost entirely personal metrics at the bottom ranks and almost entirely win/loss at middle and higher ranks.
It will solve all these problems without having to completely design a whole new “TrueSkill” type of system. It will work with your ELO-like design perspective.
For those interested in the science this is a good article: [add https://]tht[dot]fangraphs[dot]com/elo-vs-regression-to-the-mean-a-theoretical-comparison/
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My MMR summary:
- Win 1 match;
- Get placed with worstest players in next 3~5 consecutives matches and receive defeat (specially bad DPS players)
- Try a chance to get placed with avg/good skilled player about to next 1~3 matches that makes goes to overtime some times and have a tiny chance to win (not consecutive matches).
- Restart cycle;
I’m climbing one rank up or keeping in same rank every time.
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It’s true the game need more in game information or at least link to out of game third party resources. New players probably feel so lost and overwhelmed. Us old players got to learn the gane gradually over the years they just get thrown jn
Good to hear! Keep at it.
Nice blog post, matchmaker is perfect the problem is you and new players… You just don’t grind enough for it to calibrate… calibrate what, who knowz cause its not skill.
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Well I guess that explains why I get the 39% winrate tank on my team.
Overwatch devs will have released 20 proprietary coin currencies before 1 functional matchmaking system.
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Great. Now just SHOW us our damn MMR as our rank and let us actually know what’s going on when we play games.
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Your MMR will rise over time if you improve your skill and win more games against players of your current MMR level.
bad design in fact 1 person who doesnt take it serious means ur losing.
Overwatch 2 is a game best shared with friends!
friends wouldnt let friends play OW2.
better matchmaking for new players.
We noticed that new players were losing their initial matches much more than they should have, and this trend wasn’t levelling out enough by the time they’d played many more matches. The win-rates of new players should be normally distributed, meaning most should be hovering around a 50% win-rate, but instead, the distribution was skewed with new players losing at higher rates.
so focus on the new ppl over your long time players?
Also “should hover around 50%” is assumption the game matches are fair.
Statistically there SHOULD be losing more until they learn as even if skill is same you lack experience.
Overall, we think this was a huge improvement to the new-player experience, which in turn should result in better matches for everyone
if most of these occur in silver and lower it isnt helping anyone top 3 tiers.
Our highest hope is to make a match that feels fun for everyone, even the team that loses.
and anyone who has played a competative game in past 30 years can tell you thats an impossible thing to hope for.
You can see this in how people get toxic. They blame all sorts of things.
supports, tank, dps, 1 tricking, the current broken hero, etc etc.
Your goal should be making a healthy game people want to play. not if they feel fun for all (as again thats impossible)
Balancing your heroes (especially fixing supports so people choose to do it more and not do it just to play faster) would fix so many issues you have.
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It’s also important to remember that our teammates are human. We don’t always perform the same from game to game or even team fight to team fight.
I hope this isn’t glossed over.
It is very possible for someone to be more comfortable playing with/against certain heroes. Maybe they make more mistakes when the match is very fast paced. Maybe in certain situations their playstyle relies on the second player in their role to play in an opposite way to compensate.
Everyone would be better off focusing on their own gameplay (something we actually have control over). Matches end and we move on to likely completely different people.
It is clear that certain people take this all way too seriously. It is one thing to be competitive, it is another to act as if your skill rating is determinant of your real life worth or whatever. I’ve seen people get overly emotional in quick play and it is baffling. I’m sorry to say, but none of this is that important.
Ultimately, if someone is having some terrible experience where they feel most/all their matches have terrible teammates and the matchmaker is awful, then why not try a different game? Why put yourself through that? Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
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I have a 35% winrate over 88 games. I have never had a winrate so low in any game with an MMR ever, including overwatch. I am not sure what is wrong with the system but this is unplayable. Something should have triggered many games ago to show that clearly I am not in the MMR range that I am supposed to be in. This is not a “get gud” or “Skill issue” moment, this is a serious design flaw in how matches are formed.
I think a good step in the right direction would be rank clarity in the lobby. We should 100% be able to see the ranks of our team and enemy, right now I don’t know if i’m getting matched against full plat teams. Plus with the career private it’s impossible to know where my skill level actually lies.
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It’s shocking it took this long for you to figure out you had to balance each role and having a gold tank vs a Diamond tank isn’t balanced out with a Diamond healer…
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I think it’s Activision pushing hard this SBMM algorithm , just look at COD MW2 , with his atrocious SBMM and even some people believe there’s some kind of skill based hit reg , I don’t blame them , FPSs nowdays feels so rigged it’s like a handicap if you do well .
Ive got a few questions.
If mmr is so important then why not have that stat shown in game.
If the ranking system updates every match why have the current system of 7 wins or 20 losses.
How does your system accou t gor throwers, leavers, and other types of trolls.
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Interesting.
Its been 6 years pls do something about leaverwatch in unranked/arcade every match
1 Like