Our Attitude To Lower Ranks Is Toxic

Competitive Discussion
14

If you look through my posts, I also offer to review vods if anyone posts them. Without a video, the best we can offer is garbage general advice.

And the example answers you gave are incomplete at best. How would I actually answer those questions?

Nothing you can do. Accept it and move on to the next one.

Depends on what role you’re playing. If you’re a dps, play close to teammates who can help you and call out when you need help with her. Pharah on her own is easy enough to handle, but a Pharmercy is a team effort.

If you’re not dps, then you support whoever is trying to take them out as the time while putting as much pressure on them as possible.

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15

And yet that lower elo person you told to ‘git guder’ in your earlier post go no such advice for their problems other than ‘review videos.’ and ‘git guder’.

At this point saying ‘watch vods’ and ‘git gud’ is just old and pathetic. No crap. Everyone knows the first.

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16

If that is the case then why do so few low ranks do it?.. also you conveniently dodged my linked post of VOD review where many higher ups chimed in despite my less than stellar performance.

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17

I mean yes… I kind of did ignore the fact that you asked for a VOD review then argued with 98% of people why you were right and GM’s were wrong. You are the person that you described people not wanting to help.

After reading that VOD thread I’m not really sure why anyone agreed to help you to be honest. I wouldn’t want to help someone who made excuses for literally every bad thing that they did in a match.

This thread is about how higher tiered players generally treat low elo players on these forums not necessarily when they are asked to review a video - but in general. Of course sometimes it’s just someone in a lower elo with their profile private and tells everyone else to ‘git gud’ to tilt them. (You know who you are.)

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18

I didn’t argue near that much with them but be dismissive if you so desire. I made my point and you’re the type to see contrary evidence then dismiss it as an anomaly rather than think maybe you were wrong. They really are helpful and give their time to aid those who ask for it for free. That kinda shatters your narrative though.

20

Like I said. Without gameplay, we can only give garbage general advice. And the thing is, that information is already out there and has been said a thousand times. Yet they post here without a vod and private profiles and somehow expect something different and new. What more do you expect? The only answer if you post here without something specific I can help with is exactly what I posted.

But what usually happens is this.

“How can I get better?”
“Here’s some general advice, but post a video of your gameplay, and we can try to help.”
“But throwers and smurfs!”
“Post a video of your gameplay, and we can try to help.”
crickets

The fact of the matter is that these people are not willing to accept that they will need to take this game more seriously than just boot up and mindlessly play (which there’s absolutely nothing wrong with) in order to improve if they haven’t climbed naturally in quite some time. They want to read some magical tip that will shoot them straight to GM without requiring them to do anything different.

As for why I didn’t offer to review that person’s vod… Quite frankly, I probably didn’t feel like it that day. But I put it in the list. If they seriously want to improve, they can find somebody to review their vod. It’s really as simple as posting a thread here or on /r/overwatchuniversity or finding a coaching Discord through a quick Google search. Or they could have asked, “Hey, do you know where I can get a vod reviewed?”

And must I remind you of what that OP replied?

Once again. He’s not looking for actual help. He wants validation or the magical quick tip that does not exist.

It’s kind of like someone asking for help losing weight and getting the answer “eat healthier and exercise more” then arguing with it. Like dude, that’s the answer. There’s more to it if you want to look into it, and you can do that with somebody knowledgeable about it, but that’s the gist of it. Without asking specific questions, you won’t get specific answers.

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22

I couldn’t agree with you more. In-fact i have been trying to be informative to players posting about this. I get flamed by the masses for it.

23

nah if you cant kill phara play d.va shes prob the best counter for her period.

24

I have a friend who can’t climb out of bronze/Silver but she can keep up with me in Plat. (Support main)

And let me tell you: You can’t carry as a support if your teammates are stupid as hell. That’s just the truth of it. If your McCree just stands still to get picked by the widow, the Rein is wildly charging into the enemy team, you have 4 DPS and none of them can hit the broad side of a barn: I don’t care if you had 32k healing and gold elims: You’d lose.

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25

Except their opponents are equally as bad… with equally bad aim, bad coordination, bad positioning, etc. There’s no real difference in the caliber of the players.

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26

No, the other players are not always as bad MsSysbit. That’s a flat out lie. Sometimes you get good players and other times you don’t. That doesn’t mean the enemy team has bad players if you have bad players. Literally an improbability

27

You’ve fallen into the same trap that I described above. You’re looking for “you’re right” and won’t accept anything else. You’re twisting what MsSysbit is saying into what you think we’re trying to say.

So here’s some advice for you and your support friend:

  • Stop using LFG.
  • Focus on your own play.
  • Review your own vods.
  • Review vods with a higher ranked player.
  • Git guder.

And since I’m free today and feeling generous, I’d happily review a vod for either of you.

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28

I didn’t twist what she said at all.

No. The opponents are not always as equally bad: With equally bad aim, bad coordination and bad positioning. It’s not GREAT: But it’s not always as bad.

EDIT: This is where the post comes into play. Low elo players do have problems that you don’t have as much at higher Elos. One team will be communicating, your team might have no one in voice chat at all. No call outs, no communication, you’re probably going to lose.

Your team may have a thrower on Widowmaker while the enemy team has a smurfing Genji.

So yes, I refute the statement that the other team is ‘as equally bad’.

EDIT, EDIT: I’m not the one with these complaints. I’m climbing up to Diamond: I’m improving myself - but at the same time I can’t just pretend like the lower elos don’t have issues aside from: "Welp, you need to git gud and improve yourself.’

29

So… it’s rigging matchmaking and only one team has good players.

Let’s maintain your theory and conclusion and let me ask a hypothetical. 12 players are all trapped in a rank say Silver. Set A v Set B in game 1 and Set A wins. Set B has 6 players all thinking it’s the other five’s fault and thay they’re trash. The matchmaker reshuffles 3 of each in the next game. Now half of Set A wins again and half of set A loses; the same goes for each half of set B. Now set Bb has six players each blame the other five as trash for the loss.

Still with me? Who exactly is the better one here? Anyone? You could argue the half that won both might be but these are two games. Is that enough to judge a player by? And they’re all stuck in that same rank. IF they were always the better one why are they not winning more and climbing? Did half of set A somehow worsen in that one game? Did half of set B somehow improve?

The reality is folks watch snapshots of others and judge them for their faults whereas their own play over hundreds of games they ignore. Then they wonder why they’re stuck.

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30

We do but its less frequent. We have a lot of unintentional throwers though. We have delusions grandeur players as well. Ones that say “How the hell did you get POTG, gold dmg and 61% kill participation and four golds, you were trash?” This literately happened today. Again have the same issues its just not as bad/frequent for sure. Never been in gm so I cant really comment on that. Just low masters.

31

Adding on to this, it’s really just simple probability. Each team is composed of 6 rolls. The outcome of a roll can be a thrower, troll, leaver, bad player, average player, good player, smurf, etc.

If you are always a good player (or smurf), you ensure that one roll for your team is always at least good. Now you get paired with 5 other rolls.

The enemy has 6 rolls. So we’re comparing

A = Good + 5Rolls
B = 6Rolls

Sometimes A > B, sometimes A < B, sometimes A = B. It all depends on who gets picked from the player pool.

Over time, every roll converges toward average player (highest probability). So over time, the teams become

A = Good + 5Average
B = 6Average

And, of course, A > B here.

The odds are in your favor if you’re good. It will take time, for some people multiple seasons per rank, but you’ll climb as long as you stay good. If you’re average, then you’re going to stay where you are. If you’re bad, then you’ll drop until you’re average. It does take time, though. You can’t just play 5 games and win them all and go “I don’t belong here”, because you could lose 5 in a row next.

Take me for example. For a long time I was a good player. I ensured that my team always had at least one good roll, and so as I grinded out games, I gradually gained SR. In order to keep my status of good as my SR climbed, I had to do vod reviews, solo and with a higher ranked player, and mechanics drills and watch higher tier gameplay.

Now, I don’t do any of that, so I’ve lost my status as a good player. I am average. I will maintain my rank until I practice to be good again or I fail to keep up and become bad. I may fluctuate a couple hundred SR because sometimes I get a lot of unfavorable rolls in a row, but over time it averages out.

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32

There’s factors that you aren’t taking into consideration whatsoever.

Did team A use Comms?

Did team B have a legitimate thrower?

Did the thrower from team B end up on team A in the re-shuffle? Did 3 people without comms get stuck with the 3 people trying to make call outs?

Did team B have a McCree constantly out of position?

You can’t just make a blanket statement like you are, or pretend that Team A and Team B are exactly the same in terms of skill and game sense just because they’re in the same elo. There are DOZENS of factors here that I could throw at you but I’m not going to spend the next 3 hours debating it.

33

It’s also a bit of in game luck and how players interact. Maybe one on Set A is bad at everything but shotcalled decently. Maybe that let one on set A who is often tilted not be so he/she gave it her/his all. Maybe it was the map as it favored their hero or they knew a better path to point or some trick. There are so many invisible in game factors as well as between player ones.

34

You just made my argument for me. There isn’t someone or team always legitimately better. How they mesh matters highly. And as a result the teams are even overall. Thank you for unknowingly agreeing with reason!

35

Ye true. I wanted to keep things short because I really don’t feel like writing too much about it, but 6 bad players who work well together could certainly keep up with 6 good players who have no synergy whatsoever. And all those random possible combinations.

The key is that over time it all averages out, so consistently being a good player will put you ahead over time.

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