The Tank.
Not that the scoreboard means everything, but I’m seeing matches where we outdamage, out heal, the other team. Except for one thing…
Their tank was better.
And they win.
I really, REALLY don’t like 5v5 where the Tank is a raid boss. You think double shield was boring? Two tanks soaking up damage and never dying all day is straight up boring.
Please bring back 6v6 as the main mode.
I’ve seen enough 5v5 to realize that’s never going to be fun.
This is how I was feeling last night as well it’s unfortunate but it really seems to be the case
The solution to that is not to bring 2 tanks back, as there weren’t enough people that wanted to play tanks and dps ques were 30 min. Blizzard should make current tanks at most as strong as a single tank was in ow1. Or they should just remove the role and have it be 3 dps 2 supports, as tanks don’t fit an FPS at all. Blizzard was just trying hard to push their classic WoW class thing especially because overwatch was initially supposed to be an mmo, but it didn’t feel that good to play, especially when they added a lot of cancerous tank later on.
I bet the game will be even better if “tanks” are just characters with the same power level as other characters, instead of this single raid boss we have right now.
Some ideas to balance out the queues.
Re-work another DPS into a Tank. Mei might work!
Put Sym back into the Support Category. Her turrets could heal, she could throw personal shields. Anything.
You’d have two less DPS heroes then. People might be more inclined to play other roles, if there were more options for heroes.
Double shield seemed like a problem too. But with the new Orisa, that’s one less shield!
I came back to OW1 a week ago, and found it was pretty well balanced. I didn’t see much double shield, and with 6 players… you could get around that better. It was more exciting, interesting, and fun.
5v5 is like two tanks smashing their faces against each other while getting healed up, never dying, and dps hoping to kill something maybe.
To me, that is much less fun than what I played just a week ago!
You were playing a dead game, its great that you enjoyed it but most players that used to play the game did not and they never would have come back to play ow2 if it was the same as ow1. Now its much closer to a proper competitive shooter that it should have always been instead of some scuffed mmo/fps hybrid.
People are still playing this game like its Overwatch1… stop trying to kill the tank and kill the squishies who die in 1-2 shots, take flanks and get a pick. Stop just sitting with your tank not doing anything then crying about tank diff.
DPS AND Support have so much carry ability now as well they just dont utilise it
Just because it’s 6v6 doesn’t mean it’d be just like OW1.
They have addressed certain things, like too much CC, too many shields. Except now, with no off tank, fights end too fast, it’s very one dimensional, and there’s a lot of dead time in the game.
It’s far less exciting.
Also, are we sure Overwatch should WANT to be closer to a real competitive shooter? Like… which ones? Because Overwatch was a smash hit the way it was. Which games are so much better, that OW should be trying to emulate them?
Edit in reply to JungleBoogie.
People DO kill the supports and dps. And since it’s 5v5, the fight is over in 30 seconds and we sit around and wait.
OW1 had fights that lasted. It was constant action.
OW2 is quick encounters, not much strategy, get a couple picks and the fight is over. No off tank to hold the fort while the main tank returns.
And in the end, it really does come down to who had the best tank. There’s no way around it. They tanks are now super heroes, doing more damage than DPS while living through almost anything.
It’s horrible design, very boring.
I can’t think of any competitive shooter that has a raid boss tank. So, OW shouldn’t try to copy other competitive shooters. It should be Overwatch, the smash hit game that needed an update… to that game. Not a new 5v5 mode that brings more problems than 6v6 had at the end.
OW2 is not the same game as OW1, you won’t have a good time if you play it like that. Yes tanks are sort of raid bosses now, but they crumple quickly without support. if you’re a dps you have to take out the other team supports without getting caught by their dps or their tank, if you’re a support you have to keep your tank up without getting yourself killed. that’s just how it is.
Fights don’t end too fast. There is no reason for them to last too long. Its a fast paced shooter, frag and win. High action fast paced fps games these days are much more popular than ow1 was for the past few years. People wanna click heads and frag out, not sit there having a 2 minute fight where nothing dies until someone gets too bored and falls asleep. Most people are enjoying ow2 way more than they did ow1, except a small minority that kept playing ow1 when it was pretty much dead.
I agree that raidboss solo tank is bad. But once again most tanks aren’t heavy aim/frag/action fps characters and there are far less people that wanna play tanks than people that wanna play dps. Its much more reasonable for blizzard to just reduce the power of the solo tank, make it closer to what dps or supports can do in a game.
i have a story to tell u
if uve heard it before just ride the nostalgia
when role q came out the BIGGEST concern was tank not being separated into main tank and off tank
it was a crazy time when discussions would be “should all tanks have a shield?” or “should no tanks have shields?”
If you want to know why the tank playerbase seemed to shrink or barely exist, role q had a lot to do with it.
A lot of tank players were torn on whether they had to learn both main tanks and off-tanks just to play comp.
(at this time, most ppl found an identity with main/anchor tank or off-tank sometimes one-tricking 1 tank. then blizzow announced that the roles would both go under the tank role instead of creating a 4th role, off-tank role.
This was a very heated time where emotions were very high and a lot of players felt very uncertain.
The community begged and shouted for an off-tank role but when role q came out, it was just 2 tank roles and blizz said “the players will figure it out” with no way of signalling to the other tank on ur team which role u prefer beforehand,
For a few hours players of all ranks tried to q and work it out with the other tank but sometimes u got 2 main tanks in q and 2 off tanks in q.
After these few hours of experimentation the new ranked meta was Hog/Zarya(ball hadn’t been released but we saw what happened after he did)
A lot of tank players gave up, felt their role was being disrespected and deleted and this was before 5v5 so solo tank was the last nail on a very old coffin.
if we had Main Tank, Off-Tank, Dps(Hitscan/flex maybe) and Main Support, Flex Support
then 6v6 maybe would’ve turned out differently and i dont think it’s too late to try this
It’d be 3 years too late but we’ve waited longer.
This was the role system the players including pro players helped create and nurture and yeah it was deleted overnight. Some of the lingering resentments can be felt when ur around someone who played ow then.
but yeah 5v5 was the result of a lot of other decisions and tracing it back helps to understand how we got here even if we dont get an answer why it was the choice and direction they chose
Almost every single one of my games are lost because the Tank keeps stepping-away from the objective and allows for micro-progress to be made (on Payload and Push maps, obviously) and it’s killing the experience dead.
It’s a simple fact; the team with the Tank that’s willing to tank and create safe-space for the Supports and DPS to work is the team that wins. Because of the hyper-focus on a single Tank, now, that’s all going onto one sod’s shoulders. The worst part is that they’re still the same-old DPS-heads from before, so they don’t switch, they don’t cooperate, they don’t even touch the Objective. They just flame and flame and flame.
It certainly feels bad when you get a useless tank. It’s pretty much a loss straight out of spawn. Or they pick Doomfist and that’s the last you see of them.
This. Pick sombra+tracer and dive the supports. Combine with winston/dva and nobody wants to do support anymore.
Doom fist not that bad just no one plays like a team
If theres all this hyper focus on the tank, why are you not flanking or tanking off angles going for picks? with one less tank youre not gonna get challenged because as you say, the focus is on the tank.
Ah, yes, the classic Flanking-Mercy maneuverer. Why hadn’t I thought of that. I do like some enemy-backline Zen gameplay.
Also, I didn’t say ‘the focus is on the Tank’ in a ‘enemies target priority’ sense, I meant ‘the whole tank role being on one Tank’? My complaint was, very specifically, about the Tank being ignorable because they refuse to pose any threat.
Then its your DPS problem for not taking a flank, anyone can carry a game in OW2 if your tank dps or support arent doing something, you need a make a play.
“make a play”? Simple answer but you didn’t say anything.
I have no idea how you’re claiming the Tank’s refusal to position usefully is, somehow, the DPS’ fault.
Because even if the tank is out of position, Supports and DPS have the potential to win the game but most are too busy thinking its OW1 to play differently and not sit with the tank.
In this game you cant just sit with the tank and wait for something to happen, you gotta do stuff yourself, so a lot of times if you’re loosing games, its on you too
I was not saying tanks being out of position is dps fault (if i did i apologise) just that you can do plenty without them
Can you just be clear about what you mean?
Let’s propose a situation; enemy team is on push-bot, your Tank keeps backing-off and is refusing to contest. What do you, as a support, do?