I said that I would remove dmg boost or Rez for her to be a MAIN healer…
How would that make her a main healer? If nothing about her changes besides having a feature removed. That makes no sense at all.
He said he’d do those things to shift her towards being a main healer, but that he’d personally prefer she move toward off-healer
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Maybe all she really needs is an original E ability…
That you would buff her base healing??
Was she not a ‘main healer’ at 60 hps and only dmg boost?
I’ve found a lot of success playing mercy this competitive season and I honestly don’t think she’s weak in any regard.
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Exactly. But bold of you to assume I’m not a genderless asari
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I’ve made plenty of posts in the past of why I think she should be buffed, this is just one that isn’t
Moira deals much, much more damage than Mercy does even if you include Mercy’s damage boost contributions. To say that Moira is a “pure healer” is stretching the definition of those words a little. She’s a hybrid who spends some time healing and some time dealing damage, and the only reason she isn’t incredibly lethal is because it’s not too hard to heal against her damage output. Even if she doesn’t easily score solo kills in a team fight, her presence adds an immense amount of pressure on the opposing team’s supports, particularly if they don’t have a Dva to eat purple orbs.
Moira is also an extremely consistent and powerful duelist, while Mercy has no in-combat self-sustain. While Mercy does have the potential to kill flankers, she is very rarely in a position to do so without extreme risk. Her entire kit is built around avoiding that engagement rather than fighting it, spending the vast majority of her time healing her teammates and staying out of the opposing team’s line of fire.
In my opinion it is Mercy, not Moira, who should be the best healer by sustained throughput because Mercy’s kit is built to avoid fighting. My opinion would change were Mercy’s blue beam to receive significant changes to make it more impactful, but as it is, it doesn’t even affect the TTK of Mercy’s allies in many situations. Consider McCree + Mercy vs a solo McCree, for an example where the blue beam confers no advantage to Mercy’s ally. There are also other ways in which Mercy’s offensive power could be increased to compensate for her low healing output, but in the end I think that is a path better taken by Moira, not Mercy. It’s what she was designed for.
In summary, I think Mercy should be the game’s pure dedicated healer and Moira should be the hero you swap to when you find yourself needing Mercy’s pistol too much, sacrificing some throughput for better self-defense and offensive power.
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But not when you consider what is happening.
Mercy dmg boosting widow for a kill is ONE assist. And very little dmg boosted. But it solidified the kill.
Moira isn’t getting the kills upped in her games.
She isn’t a hybrid. If mercy had NO dmg boost, and had to rely on her pistol, her dmg numbers might go up. But make her much weaker as a hero.
Moira also has no flight or constant mobility
It’s not. You choose to not use her dmg potential. She has the second highest DPS potential and if she isn’t using it, that’s not on the Devs.
Until Rez and dmg boost is removed, ima disagree. Moira has nothing in her kit besides healing and it’s why unlike mercy, Moira isn’t played in higher tiers. FINISHING a fight imo, is better than trash dmg.
I think if a Mercy is pocket-healing someone, that target shouldn’t die very easily. Obviously if they’re being focused by 2-3+ dps, they should die. I’m not debating that. But I think it’s utter bullcrap when you’re healing someone as Mercy and they can be melted by a dps just direct firing at them. That should NOT happen.
Rez is absolutely a main healer perk. Damage boost… Okay that probably isn’t. Maybe instead of damage boost it could be reworked into 30% damage resistance? Hey, it could even help with sniperwatch.
I agree…that’s why I said either or.
My own choice would be dmg boost. But no, I would not replace it with anything else…I would just make her alt fire pistol so she could heal or dmg smoother like the other main healers.
Damage boost is not useful in most contexts. I think… the short list of people who actually care if they get it is restricted to Ashe, Bastion, Pharah, and Widow.
However with Widow, if Widow is already at 100% charge and hits a head shot on anyone less tanky than Bastion… that Mercy boost did literally nothing. Widow is about the 4th best damage boost target and it requires Widow to realize she’s got it and change how she plays.
Moira doesn’t need it because she can usually duel or fade away from anyone who challenges her.
It is. That’s why she has GA. That’s why her gun is a weapon swap away from her healing. That’s why her self sustain is out of combat only. That’s why she’s the only single target healer who doesn’t need to look at her target. Now I agree that people should use Mercy’s blaster more than they do, but trying to claim that Mercy’s kit isn’t designed around running away and only fighting when necessary is just silly.
Also… she doesn’t have the second highest DPS potential anymore even if just looking at the supports. That honor goes to Baptiste now.
Moira is not just a healer though. How can you look at the hero with straight up the BEST in combat sustain bar none and say “Oh they’re only good for healing.”? There’s a reason why Moira is (or at least was) the most picked Support in FFA and other people complain about her being there.
You’d make a stronger point here by using Ashe in your example, not Widow. And you have a point that Mercy’s damage boost is guaranteed focus fire, while Moira’s damage is not. Focus fire is more valuable, but Mercy’s damage contribution including boost is so low that I have to question just how much more valuable focus fire really is. Moira’s player is also in control of who to target, meaning that Moira’s damage contribution can also be focus fire and in most cases higher DPS than Mercy’s blue beam.
She definitely is. Every elimination that Moira scores is someone who she dealt damage to before they died, and while some of them may have died anyway, Moira directly contributes to many eliminations.
Her damage does go up by using pistol in place of damage boost, but it’s still miserable. I’ve played that way just to see what it was like, and the risk isn’t worth the results. Mercy’s incredibly slow projectiles can be easily dodged, making Moira’s extremely generous hitscan weapon a superior option despite its low maximum DPS even before the difference in self-healing and risk is taken into account.
And Mercy can’t press one button to become immune to all damage and remove most debuffs. They have different mobility, but they both have mobility and Moira has invulnerability too.
Mercy gains health when not being attacked. Avoiding combat is incentivized by that aspect of her kit, and made possible by her staff’s beams. It’s true that Mercy’s pistol is higher DPS than most of the other supports’ weapons, but because of the weapon swap delay and her utter lack of utility that she can use while targeting enemies it is in most cases inferior to the other supports’ offensive options.
As an example, Lucio deals the same damage per projectile and the same magazine size, but due to the pause between bursts he deals less DPS with his primary weapon than Mercy. However, Lucio can use this weapon while healing at the same time and he has his boop to fight with, dealing additional burst damage or outright killing enemies near cliffs.
A Lucio with his gun out is just objectively better than a Mercy with her gun out. Mercy’s kit is not designed to take fights, and you shouldn’t judge her by the raw DPS number attached to her mostly unused weapon.
Moira has damage. Nothing about Mercy’s blue beam makes its damage contribution more valuable than a Moira focusing on the same target in cases where Moira’s right click does more damage in the same time frame… which is nearly all cases. Moira is also played in higher tiers. While she has a lower pick rate, she does exist, and even sees play in the OWL over Mercy in numerous situations.
A killing blow (or damage boost assist as the case may be) is indeed better than just dealing trash damage, but not all damage that Moira deals is trash. That’s highly dependent on team communication and the skill of the Moira player.
I’ve been suggesting adding 30% damage resistance to Mercy’s blue beam for a long time for that very reason.
Agreed. That’s why imo its fair.
I don’t think it’s designed that way at all. You have tools. How we use them is entirely on us.
For example, I find GA to be the time my blaster is out. She is projectile and it makes strafing easier on her since GA is fluid and able to turn to her enemy despite where she flies. This is wholly unique to mercy since every other hero has to shoot to their mobility direction and right in front of them (closest you get is Winston)
Fair…but third is nothing to sniff at
Because it doesn’t work beyond FFA. Thats why FFA is one thing, and comp is another. Securing kills when NO teamwork is for your enemy isn’t the same as when the enemy is working together.
Looking at mercy’s higher play rates… I’d say it’s more valuable
I’m saying in the context of all supports. To compare Moira Vs ana or mercy.
Her role in securing Vs participating in kills . That is, how many people are dying in a Moira game, Vs mercy? Moira might have higher kill numbers, but how much of the number is for the whole team Vs merc y?
That sounds like a personal thing. I much prefer to reverse and play with reverse priority mercy with dmg boost taking up 60% of play, and healing only after securing kills…
Which seems fair since she can ignore any dmg any hero on her team took and all the resources used to kill said hero and bring them to the fight sans distance between spawn and her place.
Is this logic applicable to zen?
That seems fair since she can both off support with dmg boost, main support with Rez, off support with mobility and main support with HP’s
A short delay makes sense unless she wants to off support.
Thus why you have to look at Lucio compared to mercy.
It seems to be by her numbers. Plus she could be dmg with pistol too. She chooses not to.
I wouldn’t say this…mercy has utility , and is being used as such. Maybe if she was hard off support, she’d be used more 
Moira has her main healer niche.
Seems unneeded to a support doing quite well
That’s not entirely false. However if you look at all of Mercy’s tools, the vast majority of them reward Mercy for being out of combat and running away at the first sign of danger.
Um… no?
There’s actually a lot of mobility options that do not under any circumstance require that you go the direction you are aiming. Some of them do prevent you from shooting (Moira Fade, McCree roll, Reaper Wraith), but I can think of at least one (Lucio) that does not prevent shooting and does not require you to be travelling in the direction you are shooting. Actually I just thought of another one… Tracer’s blinks. You can keep firing through using one and you can use a blink to travel any direction.
It works out that way if they send a flanker after Moira. That flanker will have to be a LOT better than the Moira to take her out. And if they send more than one… well that’s what fade is for.
That’s what Moira is. She’s the Anti Dive/Anti Flank main healer.
Let’s be real… Moira is hard countered to a truly sickening degree by Ana and Mercy is not, and Ana is nearly a must pick at high ranks. That’s why Mercy is “better” at high ranks.
Nah I made that argument halfway in jest
But the idea behind it was Mercy’s healing is balanced in that it literally can’t be stopped from any means besides the Mercy dying and Mercy is also the hardest to kill support
So people who complain that she doesn’t heal enough to save people all the time is like
Well yeah, she shouldn’t be able to with that amount of consistency, no one would ever die