5v5 is a crime against the tank mains.
Also with the tank role consisting only 1 tank, the meta will be even more tank defined and will be down to picking the correct tank.
If you thought goats or dive was boring wait to see meta that consist of the same tank being played each time.
Yeah, uh, it kinda was…
Very true. I had not considered that.
yeah, no.
Division ! = hate
I haven’t finished watching this 5v5, OW 2 mod lobby with players like KarQ, Yeatle and Flats in yet…
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1030597360?t=02h39m19s
…But in the Nepal game, Flats wins the game playing Flankhardt, and they speculate that Lucio’s not as valuable for Rein anymore. In the post game discussion there’s talk of Bap + Zen being the support duo to pair with Rein.
EDIT: timestamp doesn’t work in the linked video, so I’ve turned it into a copy and pastable version so that you don’t have to waste time trying to find out where the games start.
I mean, bliz admitted 132 didnt work out.
Have a read of some of the feedback from the time:
I’ll give it a watch. This sounds interesting.
To be honest, we don’t have anything to compare with because the game isn’t released yet. We know how solo tanking is in OW1, we have absolutely no idea how it will be in OW2. You can’t compare the experience in OW1 and solo tanking, with the experience in OW2, simply because you have no idea about anything, as they haven’t revealed any info on the in-depth balance changes.
OW2 will be a vastly different balanced game, and as such can never be compare with OW1.
Literally nothing there says what you just said about “blizzard admitting”
Forum takes are forum takes.
Ok but this is OW2 we’re talking about, an entirely different experience. Solo tanking is painful in OW1 because the game wasn’t really designed for that and hasnt been balanced around it. OW2 will so who knows if it will actually be ‘horrible’
I cant find the exact post, but yeah, they literally said that triple damage wasnt a success.
They said they wouldn’t implement it, but that they also saw how people had an initial visceral reaction then started to adapt. The antagonism started to mellow towards the end of the test (it was like 2 weeks?)
What people were scared off was of the plausible implementation of that model and they really reacted on it. You know, because some experimental changes DO migrate to live.
Even I didn’t want 1-3-2 as they showed, but I liked the monolithic tank formation. 3 damage felt like too much.
They also stated they were open to iterate on it in the future. And it’s exactly what happened.
The reality is that this frees up the design team to balance each tank individually.
Think about it: Fixes to tank imbalances involved some of the most drastic changes to the game.
Dive? Brig.
GOATS? RQ (after a ton of DPS buffs that went nowhere).
Double shield? Nerfing virtually all shields, including Rein, all because of Sigma.
Tank synergies are stupidly powerful, yet tanks without synergy leads to a complete throw. Feast or famine.
Like Orisa. She’s absolutely useless, but pair her with Sigma and it’s still a very annoying comp to deal with.
Flats just tried a 5 v 5 OW2 build with Karq and others. It is in his latest Twitch Vod. It was exactly as expected, a boring deathmatch slog. It didn’t feel like OW at all.
Now is the only time that we have to raise concerns. If we leave it for later, then it is too late.
Maybe they teased out 5 v 5 in such a weak, tentative way because they exactly wanted to test the waters of what the community reaction would be?
this is what I’ve been saying, they tried to “solve” the problem of solo tanking by increasing the damage of the heroes in question, wtf??? how does increasing lethality helps tanks be a better front line???
I hope the pros/devs discord is filled with complaints about 5v5 for real
The need to contest the objective will force the enemy team into Reinhardt’s range.
Just like it does now.
The synergies will never go away. It will just shift from 2 tank synergy to 1 tank and a dps synergy and nothing will really change.
And then the tanks will get nerfed back to the ground even after being adjusted for 122 simply because they will stick up higher than anyone else because they will be the single unique thing in the team and the dps will demand nerfs.
From what I watched on the stream wasn’t much difference. When the tank got blown up the rest of the team got steam rolled.
That’s almost no different than the problem of solo tanking in current OW.
The devs had 5 years of player data, their esports data, and their own internal data to attempt to figure out how to balance and they couldn’t do it.
Now they want to throw all that out for an even tighter, though to be fair, more simpler 5 v 5 format that is a tall order of making each tank fair, fun, counterable but not broken.
Oh and juggle that with new heroes in the mix.
It’d be different if they balanced the different game changing rule sets but made these changes because this was their new an all along.
To me it seems like they were stumped on 6 v 6 especially tank role, and this is what they are going with to see if it works.
It’s already hard for them to balance for ranked while balancing for pros. And now they want to do a new direction with all these variables that can lead to mistakes.
I want to be wrong. There’s no upside for me if OW 2 turns out to be a less fun game for me as 222 was less fun that made me leave the tank role.
But also in fairness to the devs and players that enjoy 5 v 5 this type of Overwatch may not be for me as it is for new players or those that loved the stream. That’s cool, I can sit this one out as I did 222.
No hero has the health-pool or the positive/negative impact of tanks.
There were broken tank+support and tank+dps synergies in the past, such as nano Rein (speed); Lucio mobility; or Hanzo+Zarya+Mercy.
These were easy to fix, by nerfing one or two abilities; or tweaking a single hero.
Tank imbalances were rarely that easy to fix. The only one I can think of is Orisa+Hog, by nerfing Halt.