No reason for OHK on Primary

General Discussion
1

OHK should not be Link to Primary fire alone. They should be on abilities or ultimates. This helps Prevent the spam of them and makes them more skill based.

Ideas:
Widow - Widow base charge at 100% deals ~180 damage on a headshot. However she gets a new ability call overload, where she can for a short duration make her Rifle go over 100% where she regains her 300 damage headshot. However after the overload her gun needs 1-2 seconds to cooldown before firing again.

Hanzo - Reduce headshot damage to ~180 at full draw, replace storm arrow with pricing arrow, an single arrow that can pierce through shields and heroes. Its headshot damage is 200, however for every enemy and barrier it passes through it loses 15% damage

3 Likes
2

I dont mind them. But widow doing 300dmg is stupid. That 1 shots tanks in open queue modes.

10 Likes
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The issue with Widow is that if she cannot kill people in one hit, she is bad. She has no followup available to be able to secure kills without it before her enemy gets healed due to charge up time

Hanzo is similar but his ricochet arrows help secure kills by adding in a quick drawn shot to finish kills so he is less problematic in terms of balance but it is still important that he retain a high damage primary fire because without he is overly reliant on a CD to reliably get kills

2 Likes
4

The game is a team based game and widow and hanzo are inherintly designed to not play with the team. My idea/Hope is to make them a bit more reliant on team play. Widow would need to not target full heal targets, she would need to coordinate with her team. Weather that is targeting someone with discord orb on them, or following up a firestrike hit with a shot. It would make her more relaint on her. She would also keep her 1 shot but it would be limited.

1 Like
5

No one likes this. Not to be too harsh, but this is a terrible way to go about balance, even if it is a “team game”.

People like to have a visible individual impact, it is perhaps one of the most important things in a multiplayer game.

People don’t go into games, do poke damage to get partial kills, and then go out and say "Oh golly gees, I really liked helping my team that game. That was spectacular :smiley: "

They like getting flashy PotGs.

This is why for years, support players have complained that it is extremely hard to rise in rank by themselves because they lack “carry potential”, which is another way of saying they don’t have a noticeable personal impact.

4 Likes
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And i Understand that completley, however every hero has their strenghths and weaknesses. If they create a hero that has none then its a issue. Your team should help make up for your weakness. Widow has few weaknesses, she has some of the best kill potential, while she isnt great at close range, her smg does passable damage, she has a small hitbox, she plays outside most heros range, she has great vertical mobility, the only real downsides is she has low health witch is negated by playing outside others range, and require alot of skill to play well, but that isnt a hero negitive by a player one. Right now Widow can go 100% of the game without any help from her team and still can do well. She almost is to well rounded and would be consider broken if her skill floor wasnt so high. That is why i purposed just limiting her OHK not getting rid of them entirely, she can still do her PotG and people can still have the impactful feeling.

This might also just be different mind sets, I prefur playing tank and support in games over dps or carries. I personally dont care if im getting kills, i play to help the team and win even if personally im not doing much direct damage. I think “Oh look i stunned them and my dps got the kill, well done team”

1 Like
7

Team play doesn’t necessarily mean not solo killing. An example of team play is going in at the right time as a flanker to secure a kill while your team is distracting the Tank/DPS.

1 Like
8

It more comes down to time to kill. Most DPS are 2HKO. Either two bodyshots are a hs + bs shot.

Mei ashe cass torb pharah junkrat etc fall into that category. 2hko is the preferred lowest ttk in ow.

The reward on hs is just too high for hanzo or widow compared to any other hero that can hit heads

If it means a widow rework so be it.

2 Likes
9

This is not true and has never been true unless the Widow is smurfing.

Widow does rely on her team, she is not completely independent from them. Widow relies heavily on sightlines, and she cannot consistently get good sightlines without the assistance of her team making space to where she can more safely move into a better position and get a better angle.

No, she cannot because without being able to reliably secure kills, she will not be a good hero, nor will she be very enjoyable to play.

This is a lot more than simple “mindsets”. It’s customer satisfaction. People get more satisfaction from seeing a noticeable impact from their actions and individual choices than they do when they watch others get that impact.

There might be some outliers and anecdotes, but I am willing to bet that the vast majority of players prefer when they aren’t “on the sidelines” so to say.

Also, you mention specifically you play tanks and supports and not dps and “carries” as if implying tanks and supports don’t have a noticeable visible impact. To this, I remind people that damage and eliminations aren’t the only way to see the impact.

To use your example, as Ana, you can sleep “stun” a nano’d Genji and you will feel far more satisfied than you would have if you had not, or if sleep just made the Genji have Z’s over his head. That is because you can see the impact you had right there very clearly.

Yes, I know, and solo killing does not mean no team play.

That is the issue with Widow and Hanzo to a lesser extent. Though you describe it as “2HKO” which isn’t at all very representable in the game. The issue that Hanzo and Widow have is in part to do with their fire rate. Fire rate is a lot more important than theoretical “2HKO” since the 2 hits don’t account for time in between those two hits.

Hanzo and Widow might very well do too much burst damage, but the way to fix it is a lot more complicated than just reducing damage and giving them a CD to compensate.

4 Likes
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Hanzo I have less issue with. He has all the ko power of widow but a far better kit. Though widow hitscan is so powerful she needs virtually no good kit. Hitscan 1shot is so good on its own. Widow is by far the stronger pick too usually.

2hko allows for guaranteed awareness and reactionary play. 1shot there is little to no reactionary counterplay.

11

Agreed

Well yes, but 2hkos vary in strength due to how consistent and reliable they are to accomplish.

12

Except every other hero in the game baring hanzo and widow can still secure kills without OHK, Unless supports blow all their burst healing cooldowns they will not be able heal whoever you target up to full before your full charged again. It takes 1.5 seconds to fully charge widows shot. Lets say mercy is healing the target, she does 55hps so she will 82 health by the time you can deal another 180 damage. Unless they use a ability no support will be able to heal enough to prevent their target from getting 2HK. Then if they use their abilites then they cant use them again for awhile. You just help your team by getting thoes abilites out of the way.

I mentioned Carries not in the sence of overwatch but in mobas, You have your ADC or Position 1 also know as Carries. I never said that support or tanks dont have visable impact. I was trying to point out you can still impact a game without kills, so saying that widow would become useless without OKH is stupid. You can still feel the impact you make on a game even if you arnt getting kills. Its just that getting kills are the most simple and strait forward way of getting that feedback.

So you agree that there is a issue, Im not a developer i dont design heroes. I came up with a possible idea, other ideas have been going around for along time. However keeping their primary fire a OHK will always cause issues, for if they have high fire rate then people will complain about spam, but then if you lower it, then you make the hero alot less forgiving and make people stop playing them. There sadly ive not see any consentise on what a idea fire rate would be, and people will say its to much or to little either way. That is why many are calling for a rework, weather its a whole rework or just a slight change. I tryed to go for a slight change where she still plays the same, but her OHK is limmited to a durration on a cooldown. There are other ideas but that is just one i came up with

13

It’s almost as if there are two supports in a game and them taking 1 second to heal isn’t exactly all that big of an issue

Though funnily enough Ana can heal about 194 HP in 1.5 seconds

Not to mention there are shields and the person that got shot can also move and doesn’t usually stand there waiting to get shot again.

I never said she would become useless. I said she would become a bad hero and not nearly as enjoyable to play.

I never implied otherwise. All I have said is that Widow is extremely tricky to balance and simply getting rid of her one-shot capabilities is a terrible way to change her.

And to add even further complications, Widow’s entire character is based off of being a sniper. In the lore and in the game, so it would be unlikely for the devs to do any radical changes to her lest she end up like another
copy of Soldier/Ashe.

1 Like
14

I agree with the other poster. These changes are not it and would make them worse off by a far margin.

Widow’s power is all in her gun. No changes to venom mine will compensate the lost of her 1 shot.

Hanzo is much easier to deal with and dies just as often as any other dps. I don’t see an issue with him.

1 Like
15

Personally I think osk is okay.

Sitting across the map 120m away with no dmg drop off is not okay.

Then stacking Rez with a hero that is 120m is atrocious.

MERCY needs to address. Instead of just nerfing any hero that pairs well with her

16

Because nothing is more fun than being 1-shot by an ability.

17

The game would simply be boring if each and every hero fit the same cookie cutter shape. They’re different because that’s more interesting. I don’t see you saying

“This is a shooter, but Reinhardt, Mercy, and Brig are designed to not shoot primarially. Change them.”

“Lucio rides on the wall; this game was designed with moving on the floor in mind. Change him.”

“Mei can slow people on her primary. No one else can. Change her”.

No, you draw the line at widow because “I got shot in the head and that shouldn’t be”. These widow and hanzo nerfs are selfish requests at their core. Hopefully, Blizzard will listen to you guys and hand out more stupid nerfs so that this game can finally die.

2 Likes
18

I would have asserted that there is absolutely no way this will ever happen… Until I had to caress the motionless love handles on my sweet Will Ramos. The last squeal was so pathetic. A once prideful beast, reduced to the team’s tickle monster.

Anything is possible. I believe in magic.