What I’m saying is that it doesn’t make sense to call your insurance company to make a claim on an accident you haven’t had yet.
Agree to disagree 
I enjoyed supporting there was just no reason for me to continuously do it without a new hero. I’ve played the other supports for 5+ years, I’d rather play Sombra/Bastion/Sojourn/Junkerqueen/Doom/Orisa and Tanks in general instead
That’s implying some guy on the forum’s speculations are more important than the code that’s on the servers in October 4th.
We’re both speculating. You have concerns, I don’t at this point. I haven’t seen justified red flags to be worried. The queue times in my eyes are nearly entirely due to supports not having a new support while Tanks & DPS had multiple.
And I’ve probably spent more time studying Role Queue design than this entire forum combined.
Listening to a guy tell me “Just assume there won’t be a big problem, and have zero contingency plans if there is a problem, because a tiny minority of players might get upset otherwise”.
Except that’s not what I’m telling you…
I never said don’t have a contingency plan, I said I don’t think there’s reason to overbuff supports when their performance has shown they don’t really need buffs. The devs should have contingency plans, but contingency plans happen when something goes wrong, they don’t happen before the issue arises, hence the insurance analogy of calling before the accident even happens.
If something is wrong then fix it, don’t cause other issues before anything even happens.
You and I both want the game to succeed, we just have different opinions on how to go about it.
Well given the way playtesting and console certification works, they are gonna need to build all those contingencies at least a month in advance.
And if they are doing all the playtesting to build those, I don’t really see a point of building/playtesting two or more separate sets of balance patches.
Because otherwise you’re suggesting they run their contingencies 4 or more weeks after October 4th. Which is “Too little, Too late”.
I.e. “Put your seatbelt on, after you crash the car”
In my experience most people queueing DPS in the second beta weren’t playing Sojourn or Sombra and queue times were still super long.
While I think “new toys” has something to do with it, I still think the role needs to be updated a decent bit for 2.
Since there’s no way either of us can prove our point since we can’t look into people’s minds as to why they’re not playing support we’re going to have to wait and see lol.
Timeline wise all a 3rd beta would be is an prelaunch early access in Sept. From a development standpoint you’d have a stable beta candidate cut late August at the earliest. The game releases in Oct so the beta running into Sept wouldn’t be able to produce any iterative changes to the release date in Oct. It would just be pre-launch early access
and in an ideal world it would be tank
If your concerns have a chance of coming to fruition I would imagine that’s a good reason to have multiple balance patches ready. But, I also don’t think 4 weeks after launch is “too little too late”… we’re talking a F2P game that is going to have a bunch of unlockable content as well as a steady stream of new content being added to the game (heroes/maps/modes etc.) unlike the last 3 years…
If the game was releasing October 4th and that was it with no new content sure 4 weeks later might be problematic but this isn’t a content droughted game anymore…
I am a support player (technically I’m a flex player). I have 500 hours on support in OW1 and have also played the game for years without almost any updates and I did not think the role was not fun to play, it just didn’t have anything new for me to want to keep playing it when I could play the new things instead. (because I also play Tank & DPS)
You are wrong. New content is the only solution to queue times. If supports had a new hero in the 2nd beta instead of Junkerqueen do you really think queue times would’ve been the same “bruh”? I’ll answer for you, no, they wouldn’t have. Support potentially would’ve had the longest queue times in the 2nd beta, and the new support would still have people queueing for the role at & after launch. This is the first new support in 4 years, you’re underestimating how much a new support will make people play the role.
Just chatting here Poytheon…
Generally a shorter queue time for a given role indicates that the game is starved for that particular role, in comparison to a role with a longer queue time.
Think of the queue as a line of people waiting to get into a match. So if there are a LOT of dps players and only a few tank or supports, the dps queue will be longer, because they are waiting on the other roll(s) to fill in a team before they can play.
So if the wait time for DPS is 10 minutes, and the queue time for Support is 2 minutes, it means there are not enough people playing support to form a team.
This only applies to role-queue games however where each role needs someone to commit to playing it. In open queue, the game just requires enough players to make a match and cares not what role they select once they are in.
My queue times in the beta as a support were near instantaneous, just because I was one of the few who enjoyed it. Thiiiiiiis was awesome for me, because I never, ever, had to wait for a match. But I also recognized that it was a sign of not enough supports liking their experience in OW2, and is ultimately a sign of sickness in the system.
The other stealth drawback, is that many of the people who “would” queue support but don’t, aren’t necessarily just leaving the game. They instead join the queue for another role, say, dps, and make that wait even longer.
A sign of a healthy-ish game would be a fairly even wait for all roles.
I appreciate the explanation but I do actually understand that short queue times mean the least amount of people want to play that role, which makes getting into games near instantaneous as you explained 
It was a bit of a leading/rhetorical/sarcastic question, because queue times can be short due to the role not being fun to play, my point is that’s not necessarily the reason.
I think the reason support queue times were short was because there was no new hero to play so no one really wanted to play it over Tank/DPS which got multiple new heroes. I myself and many others simply had no reason to play Support over Tank/DPS when it’s the same we’ve been playing for years while other roles got new heroes. I’m nowhere near the only person who would’ve played more support if there was a new hero to play.
Ahhhhhh…apologies. 
I agree with you. The limited amount of characters to play in Support certainly makes the role less appealing…even for those who “would” switch to it every now and again. I think the only people playing it now are the hardcore support players who just love the role. Or one-tricks like myself who can groove on 1 toon forever.
The support role just can’t catch a break though. Even a toon that was meant for use shifted to dps. Heck, I think a lot of us (supports) wouldn’t even mind if they shifted Symetra into a pure support roll, just for a different game experience. Now we’re all champing at the bit waiting on Fox Girl in the hopes she’s be an actual support, and not a stealth DPS. Maybe she’ll drum up some needed interest? One can only hope.
I totally and wholeheartedly agree. There are a lot of people who will play multiple roles, but why play Support if there’s not really anything new about it? The hardcore support only players/one tricks were probably the only ones queueing for the role because of it. Add a new support and everything changes.
People just want variety & new things. Supports haven’t gotten a new hero in almost 4 years. Adding the fox support will make a lot of people play the role.
OW2 was screwed the moment the early October 4th 2022 release date was decided. Devs had less than a year to redo the PVP experience resulting in many poorly thought out decisions. It truly feels like the sequel plan has been constantly changing and strung along by a handful of managers running damage control.
Except the beta 2 was only 3 weeks’ long thus rendering your “logic” invalid for the umpteenth time. If the beta was longer do you think people would have been as interested in playing Junkerqueen after 3 weeks? “I’ll answer for you, no, they wouldn’t have.”
Even if the prediction you pulled out of nowhere was true (spoiler: it ain’t), there are 6+ months between ‘Foxgirl’ and the next Support hero (yes, the part of my post which you conveniently ignored). So…no.
The beta lasting 3 weeks does not render my logic invalid… the fact of the matter is that a new support will turn queue times on their heads.
When I’m right and queue times are better with a new support all the way up until another new support comes out, please @ me This won’t be some temporary thing where Support queue times are only long at launch & for a couple weeks after & then support queues go back to instant again. Lots of people will want to play support once there’s something finally new to actually play
There are two Overwatch 1 patches in the works - 1.73 (presumably Anniversary Remix 3 which pre-downloaded today) and 1.74 which has showed up elsewhere on Battle.net.
So there’s at least one more thing planned for Overwatch 1 between now and October.
Because they already tricked us into paying for the last one. You think THESE devs are going to do anything else since we won’t pay for another one??