Face it. The Dumpster Crew has been bottom picks in all ranks across the board for a while. Virtually never picked, and with the exception of Sym their win rates aren’t anything special in general either. Help the weakest characters to compete.
34 Likes
im not too sure about buffing bastion…
sym is a touchy subject
mei, yeah sure buffs couldnt be too bad
reason bastion cant be buffed is because:
he has little value by himself
but when he has a pocket, he as INCREDIBLY HIGH value. buffing him would be disastrously horrible. he would certainly need a nerf to compensate. tbh im more for a whole bastion rework.
12 Likes
I mean aren’t they all when you factor in hero biases that the large majority of the community has against them…
28 Likes
yes for sure, but i meant personally i dont know much about why people complain about sym because i find her to be very good, and i dont want to argue about her because im not educated on her at all, so thats why i ignored her.
1 Like
Bastion, just make his Ult transform 3x faster, and not take self-damage during Ult
Symmetra, just simple buffs will do, like a 15m beam
Mei would need to be a Tank to get meaningful buffs.
325hp, 10sec wall, and can be healed in iceblock would be ideal.
Sombra, you’d need to nerf EMP first. I’d suggest make it so EMP doesn’t go through barriers/bubbles. Then whatever buffs would be fun, without being gamebreaking.
3 Likes
my gripe with her is that her way in and out of engagements is just not available often, and when she’s in effective range, she’s just not numerically balanced to be able to reasonably get her job done whether that may be zoning or damaging.
i.e. she’s a shorter ranged hero (including orbs) that neither has the sustain nor mobility (nor even an reasonable mixture) to compensate for that, while at the same time really lacking burst to even let her get stuff done in the small window she has even when she gets in unless she’s being hard pocketted.
what’d be a direct solution to the former core issue (getting in and out more indpendently) would be to give tp a better cd mechanic so that she can use it more for herself. e.g.
- old 3.0 finite tp; or
- arcadium’s idea of cd starts on placement and pauses when half of cd left until destruction.
and re-numbering her orbs (projectile speed, size, charge time, wind down time, aoe radius, etc.) so that they’re balanced around being faster projectiles (more effective range because more aimable —> if more aimable, then it encourages them to be more aimed esp when still having charge time and thus less spam and skill based reward). i.e. being more aimable in midrange.
like rn, mathematically speaking, you can literally ensure that you only get splash damage (or less) from orbs when you’re 15m away from a sym trying to reactively dodge her orbs, let alone like ~20m or more.
her latter issue of “time to get something done” vs “time she has in effective range” is less clear to solve and is more of a “test and tweak” but having 80dps on lvl1 primary rather than the current pathetic 60dps is a decent start when combining with the previous.
1 Like
Sombra is fine if you communicate. Most of ladder doesnt. You and your teams fault. Mei is way better with this ammo change so Im not sure she needs any type of freezing or survivability buffs. Symmetra is doing okay in double shield , not good but way better than ever. I guess 25 hp helps.
5 Likes
In GM, Sombra is picked 0.27% and has a win rate of 47%. Even at the highest point of the ladder, she doesn’t get picked, nor win. In real world settings, she doesn’t work. If it’s a “your fault” you’d think at the very top of the game ladder, where players tend to do everything right they’d make it work. But they don’t.
Mei is a bit better with the ammo change, but the fact that she’s just barely scraping by with a 50% rate in the top is because even the best players lose to lower rank players (masters, not GMs) and that picking other characters tends to just be flat out better. Doomfist for example, who you yourself just made a thread pushing for buffs on recently is picked 1.42% and wins 57.76%. That’s a pick rate over 5 times more often AND with a 7.76% higher win rate.
Sym is a tad harder to make a case for, as her win rate IS 55%, but there’s a reason she’s picked very rarely at a 0.62%. Frankly the idea that the same few characters are always the least picked says something…
And Bastion is a bit hard as well, since I personally don’t use him enough to have any idea how to make him work without being oppressive.
13 Likes
They are all already good sombra and bastion just need teamwork to work
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It’s not because they’re bad It’s because they’re boring
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Like honestly people need to see sym povs in replays when they see a good one instead of complaining, the apm decision making is so high, We won the match but the enemy sym gave us such a hardtime on Volkskaya b, i had to check replay she was literally playing like a magician walls tp between walls moving in and out duelling changing targets getting turrets out on cd and stuff.
3 Likes
As a Sym main, advocate, and the first person to make a lot of noise when Sym needs buffs I say…
Let’s hold off on buffing Sym for now. She’s in a really decent power state.
Let Blizz deal with double shield first (probs in 2021) and then see where Sym is at and buff if needed then.
The last thing we need is for Sym to get a buff that makes her powerful during double shield like she was in 2019 that causes the ignorant community to scream and tear their hair out thinking she was a problem - causing Sym to be obliterated (and Doomfist to be semi-obliterated) with nerfs.
8 Likes
Only scrubs who think she can afk with her turrets, OR see gameplay of hyper enabled double shield vs double shield comps where sym can w+m1, think she’s boring.
She’s one of the most engaging heroes in the game. Two weapons with diff aim styles - tp enabling all kinds of stuff, outplay potential with wall etc.
She has no OHKO, no stuns, no panic buttons, no in-combat sustain. By all accounts she should be fun to both play and face but lolturrets making hardstucks mald
11 Likes
Damn don’t attack me I know you can do more with sym but she just isn’t my type of character
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Ya good ones use their tp bombs to zone and shoot right click to were the enemies would move, we play overwatch they play chess.
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symmetra is really good right now and doesnt need buffs
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No, it’s because they don’t work. The simple fact of it is “players want to win” and as such play the characters they think will let them win. Why do you think everyone played Orisa when she was meta, but then stopped when she got nerfed too hard? Why is double shield played over Roadhog and Wrecking Ball? Because double shield wins.
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You CAN win with symmetra infact it’s a free win in lower ranks if you play her
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I did say Sym was a bit harder to argue Sym’s case. There’s still the rest of The Dumpster Crew to be looked at.
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Yeah but let’s be real a big part of the problem is that hitscans are so strong Tho I genuinely wouldn’t know how they could fix that almost every projectile hero sucks against good hitscan
(Except for bastion) he needs a rework or something to be viable without relying on his team
1 Like