You do realize it is going to moving at 30m a second right? Just as fast as Pharah’s rockets. You really need to consider your arguments. That is why you think you are winning arguments. You leave out important factors in order to make it sound weak when it is not. Selective memory you have.
Nope, being alone does not mean not standing on top of a teammate. Being alone means no one is in range to assist you. You can do a spread comp and not be alone. Learn the difference.
So how is McCree and Zen getting value if this is the case? You have ineffectively attempted to dodge the fact that other hero’s with equal lack of mobility and the same healthpool, and no means of self heal or damage mitigation but provide utility (just like sym will with the rework) or fire power (just like sym will with the rework) are doing fine.
Because the reason zen is for his utility. Regardless of his survival rate right? You yourself said it is because of his discord and harmony orbs correct? If that is the case with the new sym offering UTILITY with her kit can only mean her viability can only go up.
But sure ignore that in live in this fanstasy world where all other 200hp hero’s that lack the same things you claim will destroy her if she does not have are fine but some how will make her weak.
The reason why heroes like Zen and McCree work with low survivability and mobility is because they have RANGE. They can position behind their tanks and do their job. We don’t expect Symmetra to work that way because it would sound utterly broken if that were the case.
Why is it that so many people discount how important range is?
A 30m a second projectile is not a short range weapon…
Pharah is a mid to long range hero and that is the speed her projectiles move. Meaning that Sym is not going to be locked to a short range only.
Not to mention the ability to deploy turrets FROM RANGE as well.
Not to mention the ability to close range quickly using her newly reworked teleport.
Not to mention that the range of her primary fire is being increased as well.
How are people not seeing the fact that her range is being heavily increased along with her damage? That in every way shape in form outside of an autolock weapon she is being improved?
To my knowledge, they never said that her range will be “heavily increased.” Again, there’s no way they’re giving her primary McCree’s range, it’s just not happening. Rein would be unplayable. And you don’t seem to realize that all her other abilities aside, you’re admitting that her primary fire would be too impractical to use and that’s apparently okay as long as the rest of her kit is useable. I think her main weapon should also be useable if they’re going to the effort of massively overhauling it and forcing us to relearn how to use it.
I can’t wait to teleport into the enemy backline and instantly die because I’m a squishy with no survivability.
You really do not see the implications these have on range?
I think you just do not understand the purpose her teleports will serve. Teleport’s appear to be infinite use per cooldown within a limited duration of time. Meaning it is not for you to go the backline alone. It is for going there with your team.
Symmetra isn’t really supposed to deal with pharah but she has a better chance with this update than with live. Her beam also charges damage on barriers you can’t forget that. She melts tanks and now has a higher skill cap. Can’t really say it’s its a nerf.
“Increased range” is not “heavily increased range.” You’re reading into it exactly what you want. Something that vague is just as likely to mean an extra one meter as it it to mean and extra 20 - and I would argue less is more likely if they don’t want to make her a monster that everyone hates all over again.
Let me clarify, I’m not freaking out that this rework will ruin her or make her worse than she is now. I even like a lot of the changes. I’m just expressing concern about the current plan for her primary while fully acknowledging that it could change at any time.
Pharah’s only weapon has a Projectile speed of roughly 30m. Is she a close range hero or a mid to long range hero?
Sym’s new projectile speed will be roughly 30m a second. Will it have only close range potential or mid to long range potential as well?
If you answer honestly (I expect you to make some lame excuse on the applications of fast moving projectiles) then you will have to admit that the change in effective range for Sym will increase significantly.
But I do not expect you to admit that. Because you and all the others who are against these changes refuse to see any positive results to the changes for no logical reason.
Remember though all of this isn’t final the things i disagree with though is the ridiculous charge up time of the new primary fire, i think the new turrets should have a little more health maybe 40 each and the ultimate sounds completely underwhelming and somewhat useless with only 5000 health but i’m sure they will fix all the problems after all they listen to everyone who isn’t a mercy main😂
You’re misunderstanding me. I’m not adamantly against this entire change. I actually like a lot of the ideas. And I readily admit that her alt fire will be a decent long range weapon.
You have mischaracterized my arguments. I’ve already said multiple times that I’m not concerned about her ther abilities in this discussion. I’m only concerned about the usefulness of her new primary, which you keep dodgin by brig up the other irrelevant changes which I’ve alresdy ceded. Please stop looking past what I’ve told you repeatedly is my concern, or this conversation is done.
I’ll reiterate it one more time for you. I’m not concerned about Symmetra’s overall effective range. I’m concerned about the effective range of her primary weapon. If it’s going to be impractical, I don’t understand the effort to change it into something equally as unwieldy. I’d prefer the old damage and to keep Photon Barrier over a high damage weapon but no feasible way to use it.
Beam has increased range and apparently generous size. Also it regenerates ammo when attacking barriers (which is bonkers to me since it gains charge on barriers).
Pretty much as a Symmetra player (tho not a main), idk how to tell if it’ll be really good or sort of bad. I like the whole “TP is medivh’s portal in hots” but i think if the barrier is infinite range it might be easy to kill if the enemy team finds an exposed piece elsewhere. I thought the 195 DPS was bonkers but she doesn’t have her photon barrier on E now so
Glad to hear it. Forgive me but your statements before stated the exact opposite. So I would ask that you say what you mean and not argue semantics of what you consider heavily increased range. Although honestly I cannot see how a 66% increase in projectile speed could be categorized anything but a heavy increase.
Which they have already said she will have an increased range and the beam will have a fairly “thicc” ~chuckle~ diameter.
There are numerous hero’s who are dependent on cover provided for their tanks. Such as McCree needs that kind of cover to get his flashbang off on targets (such as rein who would also be a prime target for syms new primary) behind a barrier.
I am just finding hard to understand why people think Sym cannot benefit from the same forms of cover other hero’s with similar vulnerabilities can. No one has provided me with any logical reasons to assume that she will do worse then them.
This is partially true.
Problem is Symmetera teleport is only useful for initiating a fight.
Discord Orb is useful for the entire fight.
Which means Zen is useful for the entire fight he is in - Once the fight starts if Symmetera gets picked off by Tracer or Widow - she becomes useless for the rest of the fight.
Symmetera will also be taking a DPS slot,
So does Symmetera provide enough utility to replace Tracer or Widow?
The answer again would be No.
If OW team dropped her RMB and gave her a mobility ability - she might actually end up amazing. She will actually be usable in OWL even with short range weapon. But currently the teleporter is only useful for engagements but not during the fight it self.
So she has no measure to protect her self once that fight begins.
It is not a question of Meant to deal with Pharah.
But how hard pharah counters her. You are not suppose to have a counter so hard that the other hero has 0 chance. Also Sym has less chance not more, the range is not going to be 20m+ and pharah will always be 20m+ away from her.
Without her shield she has less chance not more against her.
The rare exception maybe Anubis and Lunar where their are tall buildings around.
My comments on the range thing were directly related to my concern about the weapon whose range was in question. Perhaps I could have been more clear about my position and I apologized for that.
Again, range is why im concerned that she won’t be able to use her primary from behind tanks. I’ve been over this so many times and I’m getting tired of repeating it. Those of us who have had to put up with people constant complaining about the 2nd shortest ranged weapon in the game don’t believe for one microsecond that the range increase will be significant if they’re increasing its damage by that much. No one in the community would go for it, least of all tanks who would have no answer to such a low-risk barrier-destroyer that can stay safe behind their own barrier, on top of all the other counters. No way in hell will that happen.