Nerfing Hog doesn't fix the problem, buffing barriers does

So on the new experimental patch they’re nerfing Hog’s damage back to what it used to be (and not even reverting the ammo count and fire rate to go along with it) and honestly I don’t think people realize how both unneeded this is overall and how this will fix literally nothing about the current meta.

Hog is inherently really good when the enemy doesn’t have any barriers; that’s just the nature of his kit. It’s not a problem of Hog being too powerful because Hog is still just doing what Hog has always done: hooking enemies who are out of cover or out of position.

When barriers are gone, Hog is inherently going to me meta.
When barriers are balanced, Hog is inherently going to be okay if not bad.

This problem doesn’t get fixed until barriers aren’t complete garbage anymore and nerfing Hog’s damage means that once barriers finally DO get fixed he’ll be in an even worse spot than before.

This is a PERFECT example of what I’m saying is a problem in this post here:

12 Likes

It’s pretty easy

  1. Nerf the peel/selfpeel on Orisa/Sigma/Brig/Mei.
    • Or alternatively make Brig and/or Mei into Tanks.
  2. Buff Dive.
  3. Buff Barriers.
  4. Fill in the gaps with Lethality buffs, like faster projectile speed.
  5. Optional, make armor weaker to shotguns/rapidfire. But increase armor ratio on Dive Tanks.

Alternatively

  1. Give Widow 175hp
  2. Change damage boosted headshot math
    • Damage = (BaseDamage * 1.3) + CritDamage
  3. Reduce the Bionade AntiHeal explosion radius down to 1/4th it’s current size. No changes for heals or damage radius.
  4. Damaging Tanks gives 50% less Ult Charge
  5. Healing Tanks gives 50% less Ult charge
  6. Fine tune healer Ult Charge
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Sigma, Orisa, and Brigitte have already had their self-protection gutted to the extreme; nerfing that would be beating a dead horse.

No, those heroes need their protection abilities like their barriers buffed or else this doesn’t get fixed; we have this meta in the first place because barrier tanks are bad at protecting and surviving now.

They literally can’t do what the entire design of their role is meant to do.

4 Likes

Perhaps you missed the part where barriers would get buffed.

It’s other things too though

Like Orisa only having 40% damage resistance

Sigma having Grasp on a 12 second cooldown

Brigitte only having a total of 200 health despite being a brawler

Well, Brig is mostly “get rid of her stun”, I’m fine if she’s durable and brawly though.

The real trick is that DoubleBarrier is basically invincible against SingleBarrier at medium range.

So it has to be weak against SingleBarrier at close range.

And ideally that SingleBarrier would be Dive, because “Almost GOATs” rush comps are kinda boring by now.

Barriers were never the problem, double barrier was. And who enabled double barrier? Sigma. If he had just been worked into a true off tank, Orisa could have been left strong, and I think she would have been able to hold back the double off tank tide. Why? Well, quite simply, she has a gun. If you can kill them at range as a main tank, double off tank isn’t so threatening anymore.

Yes barriers need to independently be powerful enough to not require a second. One way to ensure that happens is by making sure off tanks like Hog offer enough value to be worth picking in most situations over a second barrier. Nerfing Hog’s damage flies in the face of this.

Sigma has the problem of being an off tank with a barrier. This means that Sigma is either run with a second barrier or not run at all.
He’s essentially a spellcaster tank, and as such all the parts are already there to make him into a unique main tank that trades consistency for periods of extreme damage absorption and output.

But they’re not. Reinhardt still has his big honking 1600 hp barrier.

That Hog was ahead of that just proves that yeah, it was Hog that was the problem.

1 Like

That would require some extreme power on offtanks. Which devs will never do.

The way you make it so DoubleBarrier doesn’t get used, is by giving DoubleBarrier an exploitable weakness.

I.e. A strong counter

I.e. A weakness at close range, that is ideally done by Dive comps

Reinhardt is also the most easily bullied tank in the game. Notice how his main metas (In OWL) were when we had 3 tanks in a team comp (4 if you count Brig)?

1 Like

Hog then at least needs his fire rate and ammo capacity reverted too.

Most of the off tanks are already pretty ok but the problem is that even before barriers were practically deleted they were in a state where you required two of them. They need to be strong enough individually that that’s not the case. As for better counters, I think Echo and Sym are a couple heroes that could seriously help with that if they got the right buffs.

I would disagree with this. His passive makes him incredibly scary and difficult to just push aside. The tank who REALLY is the easiest to bully is Sigma.

I impore the devs to hold off on Roadhog’s re-balancing for the time being. Lets try re-buffing barriers first. Just enough that it won’t bring back double barrier but would make Roadhog less powerful as a bunker buster

2 Likes

Doesn’t work, just melts single barrier.

It’s gotta be a weakness that DoubleBarrier has, and SingleBarrier doesn’t.

I.e. A problem that gets fixed by having an offtank

1 Like

I agree that off tanks need to be better so that they’re worth picking over a second barrier, and that’s one of the reasons why I dislike this Hog nerf so much

I figure the way you make it so offtanks are useful, is by giving them a near monopoly on anti-Dive peel.

Similar to how offhealers have a near monopoly on big defensive ults.

Problem is, Blizzard appear to have no clue why double barrier exists.

While it is possible to fix that problem, I doubt the specific changes needed would happen.

I will also point out, Orisa would be great against double off tank, if she could be good again. She can compete against double off tank damage (against tanks due to spread), while also having a shield.

Right, so things like Hog’s hook combo, Zarya’s bubbles, Dva’s matrix, Ball’s boops, etc

Yup, which is why Orisa/Sigma/Mei/Brig shouldn’t be providing anti-Dive peel, to compositions that do not have an offtank.

Additionally Orisa/Sigma should be kinda screwed, without it, so nerf their selfpeel as well.

But in trade, the get nice beefy barriers and extra firepower if they are missing anything.

So essentially you want to make Orisa and Sigma way too team dependent?