1: The exact characters you use wont be together 100% of the time when you’re fighting enemies
2: the enemy team thinks of using the barrier more to protect themselves rather than to protect the barrier
3; Dvas matrix lasts extremely short.
4: Shields still melt no matter what character is shooting at it, As long as the whole team focuses it down
5: You forget even if Orissa replaces her shield you just have to focus it down again, Reinhardts shield has 2000 HP and can be easily melted but you make 1800 look like a problem.
6: There are much more entrances then the ones that are being protected to go at an enemy team. If successful you get to shoot them from behind leaving the enemies with no plan but to just start shooting. During a 6v6 bastions in closed spaces can be easily focused and killed, And even comps that are focused on protecting Bastion no matter what at some point might split due to bad coordination in the war zone of the 6v6
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One thing I’m afraid of is A Bastion comp. (You know, the babysitting strat) paired up with an Brigitte.
You can’t get in close because Brigitte will stun you and Bastion turns you into Swiss Cheese, not to mention you’re just playing into Brigitte’s strength.
You can’t fight at medium range because Bastion will out-DPS you (they will win the shield war without a doubt unless you run the same thing).
So the only option left is to fight at long range, where you still might lose.
It has the potential to become an unstoppable monster, but then again, it might not happen. Just thinking about different strats.
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Brig is not into comp yet, therefore we wouldn’t know how well the things you said would do, and she needs to hit enemies to heal allies so it’s a problem.
But then again they could just run a main healer such as Mercy or Ana/Moira. Her burst heal might also be useful in keeping the bastion alive during a dive.
This all hypothetical of course, just mainly thinking about what the meta might be.
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Healers are most likely to focus on keeping tanks alive, Tanks are an extremely important role in protecting and guiding the teammates, and disrupting the enemy team
The only change to bastion I see in the future is a cool down on sentry mode with the ability to reload taken away from it. I’d suggest 10 seconds. This would allow bastion to be heavily buffed in other areas of his kit while removing his tendency to have a stationary play style.
Whenever Bastion’s been present, the meta has always been “get a shield tank to pull babysitting duty.” I would argue he was even more vulnerable before the buffs to Reconfigure and Self-Repair.
1: Pirate ship or most defensive comps (and plus, this is assuming a comp focused around Bastion; there are better comps out there)
2: I have no idea what the heck you are talking about there
3: It was easier back when Defence Matrix had a longer duration, but even now it still provides 2 seconds of coverage while Orisa’s shield has something like a 6-8 second cooldown; also see remark 5
4: True, but considering you don’t want too many slots taken up with DPS (and all tanks bar Orisa and Zarya need close-range to be able to bust barriers), you will naturally gravitate towards Bastion and Junkrat for melting barriers over Widow and Hanzo (other Heroes, such as Pharah, may also help, but they are not as fast at barrier-busting as Junkrat and Bastion)
5: As long as you can keep up a decent flow of protection over 6-8 seconds (cooldown of Orisa’s barrier), then you be able to hold out for a good couple of minutes (and the above comp I mentioned is one that is designed for that; start to can too much in the way of tanks/supports to focus on barrier-breaking, and Bastion will melt you)
6: This is best suited to dive, and irrelevant to the barrier-breaking debate (due to avoiding them instead of breaking them; it shows how powerful dive can be). In addition, situations where enemies have only one or two decent routes are going to be particularly powerful for Bastion (such as King’s Row and Hanamura; while there are flank approaches, they could probably be monitored by Junkrat fairly easily)
Your response to 6: It should be common sense to dive around Bastion, But this is for people who like going straight at enemies for some unstrategic reason
Response 5: Trust me, Im a Bastion Main. I’ve played with Orisas and their shield get melted faster than your eyes can even comprehend if it’s focused hard enough, And part of what I said was for players to rush in once broken so the enemies don’t get a chance to properly replace themselves.
And once again with 1: I’m a Bastion main. Anytime enemies run in nobody thinks “Oh how is Bastion doing” everybody is on the mic telling who to focus who, who died, etc. if my steps were followed, Enemies would rush in before defense could replace themselves as soon as defense shield breaks. Same goes with payloads except in a more strategic way it will need to be done.
The part where you said Dva would cover the shield, Still as soon as it breaks everybody should push forward, Or push in general. And punish the tanks if they’re too late to back up. Dvas matrix doesn’t stop movement
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Torbs turret can be fixed by removing the cooldown (make it rely entirely on scrap instead… like he armor packs) and give it a small AoE knockback when placed… small. I’ve seen creative uses of Torbs turret and think these changes would make his playstyle more viable.
Common sense, but it is still better-suited to dive (maybe other comps can pull it off, but the barrier-melting one is a frontal-assault one as otherwise you don’t care about the barriers so much and barrier-melt is what we are arguing about).
Response 5: I play Orisa a fair bit. It takes a fair whack of force to take down one of her barriers. While it is pretty easy to eliminate the barrier before the cooldown has finished, my comp throws up so many defences that it will have mostly, if not fully, cooled-down and be ready to use. In addition, there being so many defences means that everyone’s will have time to recharge before use (if not fully, than mostly)
Response 1: Again, we are arguing about a barrier-melt comp, NOT DIVE OR ANOTHER ONE!! Those defences will have so little downtime that it will be nearly impossible to breach them without changing from barrier-melt comp to one better suited to flanking (for which dive is best suited). And plus, no defensive wall bar Ice Wall for Mei will stop movement.
That would be a good step, though gathering scrap would make initial setup difficult unless they allowed him to start with a baseline quantity. At the end of the day even if he should be a counter to mobility heroes, builders need to be much more mobile themselves to be competitive. Securing an area should focus more on how well they place their structures for each situation rather than how long they can stand in one spot and hold the same button.
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This topic is on a good run so far
he’s played 0.03% more in QP.
in comp it’s 0.58%
in QP it’s 0.61%
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If it’s protect the president than no, it’s not taking your whole team to kill him, it’s your whole team fighting the president strat which involves the whole enemy team as well…
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Please no. He needs sentry to be straight up buffed, or reverted. We don’t need another reason to never use sentry.
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Terranguard, we’ve had this disagreement before. I understand you fundamentally disagree with ANY nerf to sentry regardless of compensatory buffs to sentry or the rest of bastions kit.
However, until you show me a buff that does not buff pirate ship we will continue to have fundamental disagreement on bastions direction. And yes I know you don’t think that bastions current play style isn’t unfun and toxic. Simply put, we disagree.
Bastion will continue to relegated to F tier by blizzard because if he was anything other then F tier he’d be a mandatory pic on several maps and his play style is simply not fun to play, play against, or fun to watch.
reverting it, he loses ironclad’s 20% resistence. He becomes easier to kill by flankers, while also not sucking.
Healing is 20% more efficient on Bastion in sentry because it doesn’t have to heal any extra HP even though he technically has more than you can see right now with 20% DR. You take away that extra efficiency and “extra health” and he goes back to being a glass cannon. He either kills you or you kill him. Pirateship’s offense will go up but its defense will go down considerably. Pocketing instantly becomes worse.
The nerf in no way justifies the buff. I think we both agree bastion is a little under tuned but we fundamentally disagree on where to invest power in bastion.
I believe bastions TTK was far to low prerework and just reverting the damage with no restriction to how long he can be in sentry mode means he will get into position on payloads and will continue his toxic roll of forcing the team to focus soli him
Oh it does. Old sentry was absolutely fine, Winston’s hated it but then again he’s the only hero Bastion actually counters. He was still underpowered when he had this version of sentry purely because his healing and recon completely sucked. Why couldn’t they have just buffed those and left it there?
I swear people just forget things as soon as they can’t see it anymore. They only look at the paper and yell “1050 dps OP!” but forget about it in practice. It wasn’t OP, because of a ton of other downsides such as not moving and taking 3 rockets to kill. You also have to land headshots and your spread (wasn’t as accurate as people seem to think) wasn’t always on your side.
I think the TTK was just fine before. You’re asking for a massive nerf and still wanting to make the TTK worse than before. He always could stay in sentry forever and it was always balanced.
And I have already given you a reason why it would hurt pirateship. Healing loses its extra 20% efficiency on Bastion and he takes one fewer rockets/grenades to kill. He becomes way easier to kill while also making him the tank buster he is supposed to be.
You don’t even play Bastion that much and you’re trying to tell me what’s best for the hero with a change I know is bad. Since the site won’t let me see your past comp times I can only look at your QP hours and the heroes you’ve played this season in comp.
Oh and the enemy team aren’t just focusing him, you’re forgetting and completely ignoring the fact that he’s being pocketed. They aren’t “focusing him when he’s solo” He has his whole team behind him. It’s a 6v6, stop making it sound as if it’s a 1v6 he’s winning.
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