With proper and effective team work, they’ll either drop lamp to save themselves or die with it and their team gets wiped by the ult anyways.
There’s also the possibility that the assailants fail to engage on the Bapt and get killed and the team loses the team fight.
Regardless… If you have ultimate, it’s up to your team to work together to ensure the most positive outcome.
Someone who is top 0.1% skill wise understands it far better than someone who can barely play the game and doesn’t really understand win conditions, synergies, abilities interactions, etc.
^^^
I find it funny all these people complaining about lamp because I have no issue dealing g with it, and if I Bap does managed to Immort my tire(I’m a Junk one trick) I just tell my team to push them immediately since one hit from most things will kill them right after getting dropped to 20% health
lol, it impacts OWL too…
The difference being, when OWL players see the lamp come out, it literally vaporizes (is gone in under 2 seconds).
If OP worked with his team even 1/1000th as well as an OWL team, there wouldn’t be any issues.
Just because you can’t utilize his abilities to their fullest potential, doesn’t mean the character is in a good spot.
I would love to hear the “solutions” you are talking about that no Top 500 knows about.
To “bait” out that SINGLE ability you have to expand a LOT of resources, which even when done successfully will leave your team with no resources against the enemy team with full resources.
Can you see now where the value in that ability lies?
I don’t know what rank you are at, but players in Masters+ actually know to group and quickly heal off back to full after lamp is dead. Baptiste’s splash healing + healing ability will quickly get the team back to full HP.
If the enemy tries to push, the team with the Bap on them will simply kite back a bit and heal to full then proceed to fight with a huge advantage resourcewise.
Dude I think you’re drastically over exaggerating the difficulty of this. You can literally force out Transcendence from Zenyatta (an actual ultimate).
Immortality field is on a cooldown and is used MUCH MORE liberally than Transcendence or Beat.
Example: I’m playing Hanzo/Cree and Ball goes in to slam Bapt. If I catch this, or it’s coordinated, and I tag Bapt (spam can potentially do 100 dmg) if I’m Hanzo, he’s dead, if I’m Cree, he’s approximately 30-70 health and he’ll either drop lamp or regenerative burst.
Baiting either is fine honestly.
Example: when I’m playing tracer with a ball (I’m always trying to coordinate micro-dives) and, when successful, Bapt will either drop lamp or die. Same thing when working with Winston or just solo-pestering Bapt.
You gotta remember that Immortality is mainly used to save a teammate from death, which means that somebody has to get low enough to be considered in danger. To achieve that you have to waste a lot of resources. While in lower ranks you can simply shoot someone low and easily force lamp, in higher ranks people actually have great cover usage making you waste resources to get that done.
Also Baptiste is usually paired with a Lucio/Zen on Attack/Defense respectively which means there is 2 Defensive ults that you have to get through to achieve a successful NanoBlade or GravDragon.
THAT is why it is a problem, with Baptiste you get BOTH a Defensive “Ult” and Main Heal and have the choice to get a Lucio/Zen for 2 total defensive ults.
If you played Zen + Lucio then you will still have 2 Defensive ultimates, but you will be sacrificing a LOT of heals to have that
Agreed… But baptiste players also lamp themselves because if the main support drops from the fight, the probability of winning drops dramatically.
Ehh… Kinda sorta… There are a lot of contingencies in both of our perspectives wouldn’t you agree?
I’m talking about my experience between 3.3 and 3.7 lobbies in both scrims and ladder competitive. While I agree that the difficulty does increase significantly above 4000, the underlying task does not change.
As a Hanzo main, I felt this pain 
And I’ve definitely had my 6-man grav/drag shut down by beat/transc/lamp numerous times which has turned team fights and I’ve lost games.
But literally, every time I see lamp come out in grav I’m trying to focus it and I’m calling for my team to focus it. If my team and I are unable to destroy a 150 hp utility then we deserve to lose.
Preaching to the choir on that one. But I know what you’re saying here.
Lucio/zen is the same as mercy/zen. The idea is to get in VERY QUICK and converge on the same target and get out before you die yourself.
OWL play on a different patch anyway
Though the only time you will actually be able to attack a baptiste head on is by going dive, and by the time you destroy the lamp he used on himself, he will be peeled.
You need to keep in mind the higher the rank the better the Baptiste would be at positioning himself and using cover. My current rank is around 3900, the moment I go around 100 SR higher I notice a pretty big difference in skill level of players, now compare that to 4000+ where it is only the best of the best competing. You just will never get a chance to shoot at a baptiste straight and killing him/forcing lamp without diving him or getting through his team first.
I don’t blame you, it is incredibly hard to destroy a well placed lamp, especially when it is placed around the corner or behind shields which forces you to go through physically the enemy team first to get a chance to shoot it, by the time you do that the grav dragon combo would be finished.
That is a pretty balanced comp since you trade in Healing for better Defense, Baptiste just nullifies that by providing BOTH healing AND Defense.
(By defense I mean Defensive Ultimate)
EDIT: Just checkout any Top 500 matches and you will see both teams using Baptiste for a big reason
Honestly this post highlights how hard it is to balance the game for all ranks… at my rank (gold/plat border) most Baptiste players waste it and throw it around like a frisbee. Use it on themselves when they take a bit of damage and other things like that. Then when they do need it they don’t have it because it’s already on a super long cool down. I’ve saved ppl from grav/dragon only to be wiped by something else right after.
I honestly wish they’d just leave the character alone. I feel like he’s in an ok spot for majority of the players in the game. I’ve actually been having a lot of fun with Baptiste whereas I used to mostly play Moira (who is trash at ur rank but ok at mines) But when I read they want to nerf his heals again or nerf this and nerf that…it’s disheartening. Why? Because the top 500 players think he’s broken? Fact of the matter is I’m not as good as you. I still find it easier to keep my bumbling team alive with Moira than I do with Bap BUT I finally feel like like I’m able to provide similar value… only for him to get nerfed again.
I think Hammond is op with his high survivability and crazy mobility but you’d probably just tell me to git gud and learn to counter the character. To that I say there are ways to counter lamp… LoS among other things.
Congrats for being top 500 but nerfing the hero into the ground may fix him at your rank but what about everyone else?
The main problem isn’t that it can deny multiple ults like GravDragon, it’s that it can do that both consistently and Easily. It requires no skill to throw this ability and get full value out of it.
While if you landed a sleep on a NanoBlade then you 100% deserved denying that ult since it required both precision and timing to land, which is something you very rarely land.
I main Ball when playing Tank, he was very oppressive at the higher ranks, and because of that he has gotten multiple nerfs which I find completely fair.
I would definitely like to see Baptiste getting similar treatment, he is way too oppressive at the higher ranks to the point that you see him in every match where the outcome of the match is decided by who loses the immortality field first. Makes for Really boring and repetitive games imo.
There is a reason that Blizzard balances according to the highest tiers of play, the reason being that if they balanced according to the lower tiers, you would get a VERY Unbalanced game.
While Heroes like Widow and Sombra felt pretty balanced in lower ranks since people there can’t use them to their fullest potential, they were way too oppressive in higher ranks and completely broke those matches, so they completely deserved their nerfs.
And this is true and I agree with you (at least for scrims). In ladder people are more complacent (myself included) and are less effective at peeling.
Completely fair and realistic.
Well yes… The ACTUAL skill curve doesn’t become exponential until 4000. And I’ll never get there because I just don’t have the time to invest.
I have not ever seen nor experienced such perfect performance so I’ll take your word for it 
Yes this has definitely happened. And it sucks every time. But it’s the price paid for bad team play 
but it doesn’t frustrate me enough to need it deleted from the game, because for every lamp that’s shut down my grav/drag, there’s been a lamp that saved me from (insert ult combo here).
Add me and I’ll invite you to watch 4.5 scrims that my orgs team plays in. I watch T500 players (live) at least once a week.
One of them has been doing VODs for me which has increased my gameplay from a hard-stuck Diamond to definitely solidly masters player.
Never a truer statement. But that’s the price paid for a game with this level of complexity and such in-depth hero diversity.
Even Valorant (a relatively simple game by design) has metas based around hero utility.
Guilty
But yeah, in Diamond/Masters, it’s not uncommon for Bapt players to choose to die rather than drop lamp because it IS a game changing cooldown.
I like the potential change of immortality field threshold being lowered (1 HP would be super cool).
Moira isn’t 100% trash in high Elo. But they only run her for very specific team compositions (in scrims) and in ladder it’s usually the OTPs.
I WILL tell you to “get good” but I’ll also tell you that Hammond is an absolutely stupid hero and if Baptiste wasn’t in the game (in his current state) Hammond would be even more frustrating to deal with.
I honestly don’t believe that OP is T500 or he wouldn’t be posting on an unranked account and hiding his profile. Probably just another hardstuck plat Genji or something.
Hammond shouldn’t lose anymore or he’ll be pretty much useless.
I feel that and I sympathize (to a degree), but as was already mentioned, playing at high ranks is more of a balance between “fun games” and “play correctly or derank.”
Because low Elo players will NEVER push heroes ANYWHERE near the maximum potential for valuable contribution.
That’s definitely understandable and I’m sure it’s frustrating but it just seems to be the curse of being high ranked. Even if blizzard nerfs him more, something else will rise. There will always be the most optimal (hence why it’s called the meta) and therefore it will always default into becoming repetitive and stale… imho. That’s the one thing I guess I could be thankful about for being lower ranked. You see a ton of diversity… sometimes for the good and sometimes you just shrug and see how it works out lol
I just don’t want to see a character who I enjoy playing become unplayable at my rank because there’s other heroes to play that can provide equal or more value for far less.
I still find ball oppressive at my rank even with the nerfs tho not as bad. It’s sucks when you know what you need to do and you’re calling out to focus him but alas… squeak squeak roll away… come back and harass me all over again lol
Yeah and everybody can play Anna and everybody does play her almost every game And we’re not asking to nerf her
I never understand why this is an issue now. This was an issue with him since his release. He’s always been busted. I can honestly say if you removed baptiste and sigma. This game would be actually tolerable.
Her abilities require way more precision and skill though. Also she doesn’t have a cheap insta ult shutdown button.
The META has shifted to him now since his Immortality Field provides TOO much value compared to other supports. Easy to play and get consistent value off
ITT: people defending how good bap is for some reason
Also buff moira
I’m a GM support player. Bap has been overtuned since the get-go. He obviously has a nerf on the EXP, but why is he getting a compensation buff with it? Just give him the flat nerf, and give Ana the nerf she needs also (a tiny number slide on her 'nade).
Other unpopular support balance opinions; Moira is trash and her EXP buff is a joke, Brig very clearly needs solid tweaking imo, and Mercy’s damage boost needs to be reworked. At least at GM+ level of gameplay, anyway.