OP Iâd like to take the time out to thank you for your efforts, providing visual examples was very nice. While I donât agree with everything and would have tweaks of my own I hope the Devs see this post and make it a point to look at Symâs kit and how to improve it.
Soo. It is worse than BOTH Symm 2.0 and 3.0
I kinda like that idea, honestly
Why armor? I mean, everything should be kinda logical. For example:
Torbjorn has armor because heâs ironclad engineer with big metal plate on his chest
Reinhardt and Brigitte have armor because well, they have armor
Winston has small amount of armor because of his suit
Wrecking ball and D.va have armor because of mech
Bastion and Orisa have armor because they are combat omnics
And with shields:
Symmetra has armor because sheâs high tech light builder
Zarya has armor because of energy suit
Zen has armor because he has some sort of mysterious energy, like orbs and stuff
I understand why turret could use shields, but armor?
Why donât u just say:
âTurrets are useless nowâ
These are good changes, except 0.5 second deploy time is way too fast
Um no. The point of it travelling at the same speed is to protect from incoming damage while reaching the point. It wonât be useful that way you did
And it was 1050 hp
TBH, her current ultimate is way better
Ok, i kinda like the idea and animations. But the problems are:
- She seems weaker combination of all her previous and current incarnations.
- Kit is overloaded. Glove is basically +2 extra abilities, thus making symm have: primary fire, secondary fire, first glove ability, second glove ability, first ability, second ability and ultimate ability. Add passive and her kit will be heavier than roadhogâs mom.
- Still. Support without healing is not a support. One of ideas i could advise is that photon shield by decaying recover health. Problem with older version was that she wasnât played as a support and wasnât a good dps either. Now itâs even worse.
YeapâŚ
Nope thanks
Nope ThanksâŚ
Nope thanksâŚ
Yeaah⌠for me itâs a nope.
Thanks!
I counted passives as skills. But you got a point. Personally I would just get rid of TP, but at the same time, Symmetra without TP is not Symmetra. So I hoped that the passive state of her ult would justify more active abilities than most of the cast.
I had more simplified version written in case someone pointed out she has too many active abilities;
- Primary fire, as described in main post;
- Secondary fire, as described;
- Second weapon (only turrets, as described;)
- Photon Barrier and Shield as abilities, as described;
- Teleporter as ult, now spawns your ally after they die after 6 seconds, consuming 1 of 6 charges, placeable like her 3.0 version. So basically a delayed res station thatâs more consistent than old 2.0 tp.
- Passive: Shied Generator: Allies near Symmetra have 75% of her health converted to shields and shields start charging 1 second earier;
This way she would posses less amount of active skills, but at the same time, you have even more unhealty mechanic than increasing HP of an ally. Also, I think her 3.0 teleporter is pretty important to make the whole ult concept work in this game. It was all hard choice to me.
All appreciated. Would you mind explaining in more detail on things you disagree with?
Itâs definitely supposed to have worse damage potential than 3.0, since she is supposed to be support after all, but I disagree that itâs worse than 2.0. Itâs much better at start than 2.0., within 3 seconds of 2.0 you deal 210 damage, with this one - 255 if my maths are right. So she trades shorter time to kill at no charge for less snowball potential.
Armor is here purely from a balance perspective, to make it tankier against multihitters without overpowerig it against slow hitting heroes. I personally think it doesnât hurt as much aesthetically since turret HP is invisible anyway. Also, I think you underestimate their power, with higher tankiness and amount, it will be really hard to deal with that slow. If six turret attack you, you need to kill 5 of them to reduce the slow. 50% slow is no joke.
It only affects the exit, so it doesnât give Symmetra any escape options. Also donât forget 0.5 second long switch time.
From my experience, there were very little situations where your shield actually broke. Most of the time it usually blocked less than half its HP anyway.
Also, 2 full magazines of 20 dmg bullet soldier mag was enough to kill it, so the HP couldnât pass 1000 hp.
Edit: Also, imagine throwing 1000 HP Barrier at Hammondâs ult. Poor hamsterâŚ
I had this idea in mind, but I wanted to try and see whether non-healing sustain methods are enough to justify support slot. So I would keep as a last resort.
Also, how she would be worse supp than 2.0? Her sustain options are higher!
Ok, thanks! But I would appreciated more specifics on why youâre against it.
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I appreciate the devotion to the character, but honestly, what she mostly needs is just speed injected into her kit IMNSHO: faster deploying turrets, lower turret c/d, quicker teleport setup (and distance) and lastly faster (if not removed entirely) primary fire, and faster orbs. oh, and add 3m to her primary, 15m makes all the difference 12m is just too short.
Do these things and she will be viable to the top, but nothing will make the âskillâ players ever accept her as they resoundingly refute turrets in any shape or form.
Mercy has
Pistol and beam
Beam has heal and dmg boost
GA and angelic descent
And Rez
And an ult
Like⌠The number of abilities is fine by precedence. If you have issue with how, thatâs another matter. But multiple abilities isnât unheard of especially with low primary dmg.
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Hmm, support Symmetra. I can get behind that, itâs where she belongs after all.
Yeah because Sym is soo much better now that she can aim for the heaâŚwait a minute she cant headshot!
She literally gained nothing from this expect even less damage thanks to our wonderful hitboxes!
Symmetraâs current weapon is as skillful as Meiâs. Expect Meiâs can actually headshot and kill consistently.
I gotta say i like it, we have everything what make Symmetra into Symmetra!
you made great animations and designs, props.
BUT!
but I cannot imagine any hero being like that.
The first problem would be, she has too many things.
she can do a lot, her design is complex, itâs not straight foward.
new players would have a lot of trouble understanding how to be effective with it.
Also having to many things creates the another brig, nobody wants another brig.
Second, moving it to support again would be the same as switching healing for mobility / utility.
It is the same thing as asking a Lucio to always lock on speed, no matter how much it helps the team to move, we still would lack heals.
Third, piercing orb that does 120 dmg every 3 seconds.
Then you have mercy boost, nano, discord, O(B)R(O)ISA(N)ULT(G)IMA(O)TE or baptiste ultimate. Every one of these buffs says âyouâd die behind a shield even if you had 200HPâ. Seriously, it doesnt make sense for you to die when youâre clearly behind cover, thatâs the reason they removed scatter. (hello ashe dynamite). If we allow this, theres no reason to have shield tanks in the game.
Fourth, in bronze matches, symmetra has a very small hitbox for anyone to hit it. If she has an âaimlockâ like Moira, you create another ânoob slayerâ with brig and reaper, in the high elo you would have Rein + Ana + Sym, as soon as you see the enemy you have ânade + firestrike + piercing orbâ, you just won the team fight doing nothing. If they donât have a D.va, they are literally throwing.
Fifth, also in GM / pro, the matches are so fast that there is almost no time to âbuildâ things. One of the sym 2.0 problems is that when she was relocating her shieldgen so that enemy couldnât find it, she was making the team have to fight a 5x6. It was not that much of a problem if she still had old turrets, but since you changed turretâs functionality to âwarnâ rather than deal damage, she would be completely useless while she hides the ultimate.
sixth, HP stack + AoE heal is a problem. Brig + ShieldGen + Lucio heal + Baptiste Heal and nobody dies.
Seveth, six turrets in the same room, each have 15hp+20 armor (35hp with reduction), also slows you to 50%. Each one doing 10 damage per second = 60 dmg per second, can kill a 200hp in 3 seconds. Its literally says âdestroy 210hp scattered in this room in 3 seconds or I kill youâ. Iâm not even talking about you throw a shield as soon someones enters there to block some damage, this alone is just cancer.
I can just go on and on with this. I will not even mention the amount of bugs I can create with your character.
Symmetra is fine right now even if I dont like her kit.
Make teleporter entrance appear on her feet, and the map stop doing damage to her constructs, and she will be perfect.
But I agree with you that she needs to pick up items with the gun again, it was fun.
Itâs more telling if players that are Pro Support reject the OPâs concept than those that are Pro DPS.
If you canât convince those that are already on your court, then itâs less likely youâll convince others that are away from it.
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This is a little off topic but after reading your post, it seems Blizzard taking out the âBuildersâ was what went wrong with Overwatch. I mean if Builders were still present, perhaps their wouldnât be as much oppression from specific heroes (e.g. Widowmaker).
Instead of taking the âBuildersâ out, maybe Blizzard should have retooled them better as youâve tried to do with Sym.
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I did point out specifics.
Thanks for not reading?
Symmetra being moved back to support is a weird flex, but okay.
⌠in relation to the flow of the conversation.
Simply stating a like or dislike is not a premise for an argument . Context. Thus why I responded to a part regarding your claim of gatekeeping Which came after the other person (op) responded to what you initially stated.
Thatâs cool and all and would be really fun, but you are neglecting the fact that support is synonymous with healing. Having a non healing support wouldnât add to the support roster because it would still be played by dps players. No matter how much utility is there, if you canât heal, sheâs not a support.
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In context I provided reasons why they are bad changes. Too powerful in some. To weak in others.
Sorry, but your attempt to shutdown my dislike of the idea is really falling short here.
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Wow your ideas are so creative and amazing, nice job!
I would love for lock-on, shield gen, and photon barrier to come back too. Also, Architects Gauntlet is very cool.
My only problem with it is that this rework feels too powerful. She should only have either Photon Barrier or Photon Shield and turrets should stay as an ability.
Otherwise, good work!