No, they didn’t. Your idea is literally forcing someone to play roles they don’t want to.
The old system, though, to pick any role was your choice, in the end.
Yes, I did say there was peer pressure from others to pick said roles. But, all in all, you made your decision. So did I. And so did everyone else.
No one came to your house and made you pick those roles/heroes.
Good. Less dps players there are, more faster my dps queue will be.
6 stacking in mid tier finds games in 30 seconds to a minute or less
So which card would i press? I’m new to the game, its confusing. Games need a single important mode that everyone gets driven to and now i have 2…?
Nope, QP master card wont work - you need a single menu option in the most prominent place at the start too - far left, where alphanumeric languages are read from. Splitting that will, again, confuse players. The QP button is the most important button in the game for getting new players playing - it needs to be simple.
No, really, you have to balance the game for everyone.
I’m offering proof, i’ve told you all kinds of things about UX design, but somehow you dont seem to be accepting them, because you dont actually want to accept that i DO have expertise. Please, ask me more about any facet of game design, i’ve worked in most 
No, you dont have to explain why Quick Play isnt quick, that’s just an offshoot of the playerbase’s choices. There is nothing about the QP system that makes DPS queues slow, its the players that do that.
Oh, now you want more modes and confusing titles? Jees…
So you’re actually agreeing that Classic would need to be buried down another level, cool. Then it still doesn’t get a top level competitive button, and is therefore less important.
Not to the devs either - they’re buried down another level of the UI.
Yes, comp is the goal where players are filtered down to. Its got “competitive” written on it.
You HAVE said its not the main goal for everyone AND I AGREED WITH YOU. That doesnt stop it being the singular and most important goal. That’s why you’re whining for QPCC - you want to feel like your mode is important and you’re being rated for how good you are in it.
DPS IS the simplest to understand at the start of the game for new players. You point, you shoot, things die. Tanks and supports are all more complex as a concept.
Sure, you can SAY its inconsequential, but you’d be wrong. I based my argument on the Pavlov’s Dog experiment and the psychology of classical conditioning, you based yours on…? Uh? On what exactly?
I made some friends and we all been queuing as a group.
release some freaking heroes already!
tank and support players like this are so cringe… yikes.
Not how it works. DKs, Monks, and DHs didn’t lead to more people playing Tank in WoW.
You misunderstood.
QPC would be under the Quick Play master card that’s already to the far left as shown in GreyFalcon’s picture.
You could also offer further incentives for tank and support roles just like with Role Queue.
Tanks and healers will generally get the quickest groups as they’re the most in demand, just like with Role Queue.
If you’re picky about your team composition and you want to wait for a “decent” comp then you should wait longer.
Specialists also want to win. It’s why they specialise.
You say it won’t change anything, then your next sentence directly contradicts that. Either it will or won’t change something.
Yes, games will be harder for solo players as should be the case in a team game.
A chief complaint regarding the LFG system was being kicked out by the group leader for not matching a given criteria etc.
When Role Queue was on PTR, you had lots of players download the PTR to play on it. The improved LFG would function like Role Queue.
If players are desirous of 2-2-2 they know where to go.
Can you explain why the Hero Select/Assembly phase is so long in Quick Play? What purpose does it serve?
Tell me about Fortnite’s UI. How is Fortnite Battle Royale mode so popular when it’s buried under several menus?
Yes you do - you only need look at the multiple daily threads where confused players complain of queue times. If they simply placed QPC alongside Quick Play Role Queue, this confusion would be resolved and you wouldn’t have to keep responding to every new thread with “Go into Arcade, click QPC”.
Wrong. The developers funnelled the majority into an equal sum portion. The developers did this.
It’s an option if the “Classic” label causes confusion. I don’t think “Classic” would cause confusion - especially not when you already have Quick Play Classic and players generally understand what it’s about - at least if they can find it that is.
No.
It wouldn’t be buried another level. Your argument literally works against itself here.
You need more clicks for Role Queue than Classic. Role Queue is the more buried system.
Therefore, revert Role Queue and bring back Classic - as clicking on the Quick Play/Competitive master card immediately starts the matchmaking, rather than the additional click.
This isn’t true at all.
It really depends on the background of the player.
If they’re new to first person shooters, Mercy is a far more welcoming hero.
D.Va or any of the tanks are also far less punishing due to their health pools as well as the fact that aim is less of a requirement.
No, i understood, that’s a cluttered menu with multiple options within it.
Uh, yeah, so how is offering the same rewards going to fix anything when it hasnt now?
If you’re picky about getting a decent comp, then you’re trying to win, and should not be punished.
Specialists not willing to compromise should wait longer than those willing to play the correct way (i.e. trying to win).
So nobody ever gets kicked from a group? That will just lead to people leaving groups more for reasons.
No, you dont get it - people DONT use LFG. Why would they? Are you going to force them?
Hero select is long to give players time to actually figure out what they want to do - there can be discussion about which heroes are best. If there’s no discussion, flex players like me need a little time to look at the comp and figure out the best hero option (Ana? Brig? Zen? Which healer is best?). The wait is just to give players enough time to strategize. Plus, people take time to join (loading times vary) and time to actually select a character, so its good to give everyone a buffer.
Ah, nice - yeah, fortnite is a good example. The main page has 3 options, with the central one automatically selected with a strong highlight - battle royale. 3 is a good number - overwatch currently has 5 hidden under a “Play” button. Fortnite wins this round. The flow is very simple after that - an advert, then in to a lobby. You’ve already selected what you want to do, so its just a gathering place. You get to change modes from an optional single screen with a few cards on it - again, this beats overwatch on simplicity of stacked menus. Also, the “change modes” button isnt super in your face, whereas Play is more emphasized. That means, if the player does all the obvious stuff, they get straight in to a Battle Royale mode straight away.
If you placed QPC next to QP with no bias, you’d confuse new players. As with Fortnite, you’d have to make one instantly obvious as the button to press - usually the highlighted one.
Yup, the devs set up the portions, but the players refused to adapt. Its definitely a problem, but i dont actually think there’s a good solution pre-OW2. QPC is not that solution.
Uh, RQ is on the same level as QP in the UI. Your classic idea puts it the level below, right?
DPS - I know how guns work - you point your pew pew, stuff dies. I know how to do this, i’ve played a FPS before or seen movies.
Support - watch healing bars, avoiding death, teamwork, target prioritization. Understandable, but less obvious. A lot of new players revert to a DPS play style, because that’s what they expect from a FPS.
Tanks - controlling…space? What the? Whoha? I wanna hit stuff, WHAT IS THIS %$£"? PICK RECTANGLE MAN AND CHARGE!
The whole point is not to force them.
If 2-2-2 does present a significant enough advantage they’ll be motivated themselves to use it.
you often get several adverts in
fortnight like when you click on the
play button or when you click on the
battle royal thing you’ll give you all
these adverts about you know the latest
skin or whatever that they trying to
sell so you have to it’s basically
burying the game mode I don’t know I
don’t think it does beat overwatch on
simplicity I don’t think so
so you’re saying the deficit of the
portions about the players refused to
adapt and yeah they did refuse to adapt
and that’s why you don’t you don’t try
to force the players to play around your
game you design the game around the
players because you’re not gonna be able
to force players to do something like I
play a role that they don’t want to
bring I’m not sure how overwatch two is
gonna solve this issue
it’s gonna divide the player base more
because people were going to the PvE
and the PvE also caused confusion
because it’s different abilities well Q
is on the same level as quickly in the
UI the classic idea puts a blow it
doesn’t put it like another step below
it’s not not another click if you were
to put the if you were to put all of the
classic models under a single master
card that has you know like click play
classic copy of classic and no limits
and that would still be the same number
of clicks basically but if you were to
put like Weaver up the entirety of rock
you just revert it completely then you
actually need less clicks in in total
you only need to click on the quick play
or the competitive in order to to start
the matchmaker
what you’re saying about the rolls is is
that people won’t understand tanks
controlling space I don’t really agree
with this I mean tanks are more than
just about controlling space they’re
about you know capturing the objective
because you have the high health poor
and you have the shield it’s pretty
obvious that you meant to block damage
with this shield your men to protect
your teammates and it’s kind of obvious
you know players do you have an idea of
what tank is meant to do and what
support is meant to do because there’s
so many games these days that have hero
based things like this like what World
of Warcraft had tanks also had support
team point is to have support I don’t
know if it had tanks but um it had you
know like more high heavy heavy
characters like more high health poor
characters not everyone is good at DPS
you know not everyone knows how to point
out stuff I’ll control a mouse properly
oh well and it assumes that people have
played in FPS before or seen movies and
especially when it comes to people who
are new to games they often haven’t
played it and an FPS before and maybe
the nitrogen movies and the point that
you ignores the fact that support and
tanks can both also kill the enemy team
that killed enemies so in regards to
heroes select I think it’s too long at
the moment really far too long I think
yeah there should be a small buffer like
maybe 10 seconds it doesn’t need to be
as long as you know 40 seconds and then
not only that but every time the round
is finished and competitive you have to
go through the same thing all over again
so I don’t think the buffering thing is
a good reason for that to exist after
like each each round attack and defense
round
I think that players shouldn’t be trying
to strategize strategize too much in the
hero select especially with quick play
like no one ever does it you know no one
is doing that so if you want to design
the game around your players then we
need to get rid of that it’s just a
waste of time minutes creating more time
that players have to wait for no reason
the assembly like it could be it could
be as short as three seconds basically
because players already have an idea of
what they want to play as soon as they
click on to click play they don’t really
care about what you think or what you
want them to play i disagree about the
the disadvantage thing being a minor
thing that’s really quite major actually
when you’re playing competitive
especially if you if you want to rank up
and you’re being put at a disadvantage
then you’re very unlikely to you see the
group lfg thing again if you lose a few
a few games because of that disadvantage
kicked isn’t really my anything it’s
quite quite a frequent complaint that I
found Latian has kind of be changed and
yeah yeah laziness is the is the biggest
factor in why people don’t use lfg and
really the players themselves need to
take accountability if they don’t want
to use it
well they refuse to use it then there’s
nothing you can do they should then just
not use it if they can’t be bothered to
wait or if they’re happy with free free
roll then why would they use it precess
isn’t really tiny thing like in my
experience it was a very major problem
every single time I basically whatever
like I wanted to queue up with another
wrecking ball player and every single
time I I would have to first of all I
would have to write the title and that
takes quite quite while I would put like
looking for a wrecking ball player
diamond I want voice chat I want them to
to have a 50% win rate at least so I
would have to talk about that every
single time or I have one copy and paste
or whatever and then after that I would
have to select each role and I would
have to blank out for the roles and I
would have to set the first royalty
damaged which is me and second ball to
tank
for the wrecking ball player and then I
would have to I would have to set the
criteria of how loosely you know the
endorsing the endorsement level could
table level zero or one or two and I
would always put that two to zero and
then after that I would have to set the
SR limits I would have to extend that as
much as possible to get someone
typically join and I’d have to do this
every single time and that was really
annoying that was a big reason why I was
more reluctant to use FG and I still AM
and then enough he also has a current
bug which is you know there’s no
competitive thing at all
like there’s no competitive groups in
the LG I can see and also the fact that
when you like when you make a
competitive group it it doesn’t it
doesn’t give you the option to only fill
up one role like it forces you to fill
up all six of the roles you can’t block
them up blanket them out now so they’ve
changed that and that’s that’s like a
big loss to the FG like if I didn’t run
away a long time then I would just sit
up to you know play with one other type
player like a wrecking ball player and
that would maybe have made the group
fill up a lot faster and that’s also a
big reason is you know having to wake
the group to fill up people don’t want
to wait a long time that’s that’s a big
reason why people don’t want to use lfg
so damaged players especially it would
not want to use out of G because it
would need to hire a few times
so nobody ever gets kicked from a group
that will just lead to people leaving
groups for more reasons I mean within
the automated function there shouldn’t
be anyone being kicked from a group
because you don’t need to have a group
leader you know just be fully automated
just like they walk you but if you do it
manually then yeah you can still have
group leaders just like normal if you’re
picky about getting a decent company
you’re trying to win and should not be
punished
well specialist not willing to
compromise should wait longer than those
willing to play the correct way are you
trying to win well the correct way is
subjective and
you’re only giving you our side of what
is the correct way for a specialist the
correct way Stallone hero that they’re
best at and the one that they’ve spent
the most time with is damage in many
cases that would be it would be a
compromise and more of a compromise to
to play a different ball
so especially definitely shouldn’t be
getting punished for spending time and
trying to get good at their role so how
is offering on Ford’s how is offering
the same rewards gonna fix anything when
it has it now I don’t agree that hasn’t
fixed anything it’s definitely a factor
in why players would choose tank it
would be a lot worse without the
incentives like the 25 credit credits
per game it’s a big motivating factor to
get people to play tank or support and
also the fact that they have shorter
queue times that’s also a motivation
will it be more of a motivation than
rocky now it’s not gonna do more than
broke you you know it would just be a
replacement for Rocky so it’s not gonna
have more benefits than well q as far as
um as far as finding you here to do to
team comp it’s not gonna do that better
than woke you but what it does do better
than real Q is that it doesn’t lead to
everyone being forced into the you know
to damage to support and to tank no one
is being forced now now it’s optional
and that’s the that’s the biggest upside
to it
you said that’s a collective menu with
multiple options within it I disagree
that having one further card would would
part of the menu if you want to see a
really cluttered menu I would I would
only take honestly say that for
tonight’s UI is quite cluttered I would
say also that the arcade arcade card
it’s very cluttered which is what makes
it difficult for players to find quickly
a classic because it’s all well and
white so as you said you know if you
want to go in the alfred alphanumeric
order of reading from left to right
quickly classic is on the very far end
of right and it’s not it’s not the first
thing that falls to your eye and they
could also make changes like if they
bring it within equip a master card then
they could incentivize you by having it
green the green
q option a green thing that shows you
that it’s a short few time to get into
that um so yeah now reversed for tonight
I think the flow isn’t very simple I
think you kind of contradicts the whole
simple UI design philosophy and in fact
that it’s still successful it shows you
know you can have quite cluttered UI and
it was still be successful if if the
game is good or if the game is
attractive to players if you place
quickly a classic master quickly with no
bias you’d confuse new players again new
players you might confuse new players
but but then who are you going to
prioritize are you gonna prioritize the
new players or are you going to try and
retain the current place because I don’t
believe that overwatch is gonna gain
many new players in the future I think
the way to go is to retain current
players so yeah it might confuse new
players but it will also be easier for
conflicts because that’s when they
always went to they always clicked on
quick play or competitive to get into
the normal non multi mode and that’s
what they used to do before but that was
relegated to the arcade it’s hidden into
the arcade so if you want to retain the
calm players and confuse them less then
then you would have quit by classic side
by side too quickly and you I don’t
think the priority should be new players
as with for now you’d have to make one
instantly obvious as the button to press
usually the highlighted one I mean you
would you would have you be unable to
order them from left to right and that
would be the thing that would show you
know maybe you could click this one
first but if it has a long queue time
then you’d have more motivation to click
on the green interface thing wrong key
is on the same level as quickly in the
UI your classic idea puts it in the
level below well now it doesn’t put it
in any level below it’s on the same the
same amount of clicks and it’s even less
clicks if it’s if you were to just refer
everything back to how it was before
role queue.
Im not replying to that unformatted mess.
That makes no sense
Comp is a mode were players go to see how good they are and to get semi serious ish games.
Make up your mind m8.
Then use that as your argument for why more people go DPS, though just an fyi, DPS isn’t exactly easy to play (most of them at least).
Pavlov’s Dog doesn’t really mean much in this scenario. Sure, people might correlate dings to “good job” but it is clearly inconsequential and the queue times prove it.
What doesnt make sense to you?
Its not the main goal for everyone, but its the most important goal for the game and the players. No confusion there.
I was using that as the argument. And yes, i agree that some DPS are harder than others. The concept of Pew Pew make things die is simpler than the other 2 roles though.
Of course it does. There’s a Ding (Dink) and the dog expects a reward. In games, that reward is a dopamine rush (the brain’s reward chemical). Its a pretty simple feedback loop - DPS just get more chemical rewards than other roles. Its a simple psychological trick that most games use - go play candy crush if you want a great example of it. Its HUGELY important and one of the main reasons games are pleasurable. (note: other games like Portal make you solve puzzles to get that dopamine rush, since your brain likes discovering stuff too).
Does that make sense to you? I mean, you’re dismissing decades worth of game design research and psychological study if you’re just gonna say “its inconsequential” without giving a good reason.
It doesn’t make sense to say the devs are buried down another level of UI
Make up your mind. You say it’s not for everyone than say it is for the players which included everyone who plays the game.
All supports have to do is make things live, pretty simple. Which could be a factor as to why they are played a decent amount.
That might be true, but it is still inconsequential.
I’ve given you proof that it is inconsequential and you conviniently ignore it.
Oh, i meant not important to the devs - the further down the UI something gets, the less important it is.
Yup, that’s why i said supports are mostly understandable, but tanks not.
You didnt give me a single bit of proof, you just said “its inconsequential” when faced with actual science and facts.
Ok, sure, so just make something that would be important more prevalent in the UI.
Fair enough, though relative difficulty is not what I would personally prefer to as a major factor in queue times since some of the hardest heroes are used the most (see Genji as an example)
Queue times
This is the same person writing about science and facts, by the way. Love the misplaced condescension. Although given Jeff Kaplan referred to the dinks in trying to explain the role disparity it’s a sad situation all around.
You’re welcome. Whats your point?