Multiple traps for Junkrat?

General Discussion
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I know it might sound scary in the first place but just hear me out for a second.

Junkrat is all about punishing lack of awareness, being best on fast targets and slow enemies that are forced to choose between abilities to attack.

While being bad against kiters and pokers, overall heroes who can keep their distance and take advantage of his big head and body.

But I really think that right now his trap is a bit weak… Being useful only in chokes and even then can be easily detected which results in Junkrat’s kit not being useful for most of the times and even when it is useful it’s not as useful as you’d expect… Most people don’t even count Junkrat as a counter for Tracer despite his kit in theory being a perfect counter to her with aoe damage, stun that punishes mobility and a one shot combo.

My solution to that: give Junkrat 2 traps each one with 6 seconds cool down. A trap has 50 hp and 2 seconds rooting. A trap can not be placed on another trap (Placing 2 in one place would just break the first one to be placed)

That would encourage Junkrat to trap several locations at once acting like a detection for enemies while also being a better tool up close to stop divers from running all over the place.

I know this change might be too big for a character who’s already strong in lower ranks due to his shield spamming power and medium range damage. But in exchange they can go for a small nerf like a recovery time between throwing the mines to when it can explode them so enemies up close wouldn’t be forced to be hit by 120 damage no matter what.

I know some of you may not like this change but just think about places like dorado near the gate where there’s the 4 ways to get past the bridge (top left, beneath the bridge, top right and from the bridge itself) or a map like Hanamora II where people can enter through the widow and through the main gate. That would force enemies to play smart and search for traps more while allowing Junkrat’s traps to actually use more as a detection and less for lucky traps that may be triggered and may be destroyed.

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I’d rather have allowing both mines to be active at the same time. If he can pull a trick with two mines it’s a mistake on the enemy team. Just make them not deployable on the same spot

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Oh you’re welcome but don’t thank me

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I’ve said since they gave him two mines that I would have preferred two traps instead, but I do tend to favor playstyles that are about area control and zoning than simply killing.

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Honestly two traps while nice on paper wouldn’t really do much to address the reasons why Junk struggles outside of certain maps. Lack of consistency and his effective range.

In terms of getting value traps are probably the most inconsistent part of his kit and I just cant see two traps actually helping him that much outside of low ranks. There are better ways of buffing him than relying on your opponent accidentally standing on the trap. It just isn’t reliable enough.

All this would accomplish is to make Junk stronger in lower ranks, where he doesn’t even need the help.

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This idea scares me because of my total lack of awareness

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tbf a trap is way more deadly than a mine in the real game context.

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I love traps so…i’m down for it

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The exp patch with Junkrat 3 traps didn’t really break the game, it gave him options and much more room to fool around in creating flanks. It’s a niche buff but I certainly don’t mind it.

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If all else fails. Pick Pharah and bully the rat.

True but it’s also more fair.
as the only one to blame for being trapped is you.

I"ll be completely honest, I didn’t try to april’s fool patch :sleepy:
But while writing this concept I did think about 3 at first but felt like it would be too much, too messy and too similar to Symmetra’s turrets.

I’m curious to see Junkrat-Tracer match up after that buff :thinking:

Don’t worry, the concept of the idea came more in order to help him in his job, less for overall increasing his viability. I believe heroes should be balanced by their design not by other heroes. If a hero does too good in one aspect or too bad then it should be nerfed but if for example the whole game is countered by one hero simply because it has no answers (for example like how Most support can’t help with one shots considering heal doesn’t effect it) then its the hero’s problem… Noting you can fix with buffs/nerfs…

The goal here is mostly zone control and anti-dive tool as the hero was designed to counter heroes like Tracer or Doomfist after all…

I didn’t think about enemies stepping on them by mistake but rather more on limiting enemies movement. Tracer for example already relies on her blinks in order to avoid damage. In lower ranks ofcourse Tracer would struggle more to do anything around the traps but in higher ranks this will result in Tracer having more limited path which wouldn’t only punish mistakes but also would make hitting her much easier. Instead of one point in the map she can’t step it works more like Torb’s molten core where you “cage” her between 2 traps and only there she can move. Meaning less running around players and more trying to work with that limted space. (I took Tracer as example but this change isn’t about Tracer alone)

It can also help a lot in detection of enemies as most maps provide multiple paths for enemies to go through. 2 traps would limit the paths while still allowing the enemies in most maps to ignore them. It would give smart Junkrat players more information about the positioning of enemies.

Not to mention 100 hp on the trap is kind of a waist… If players detected it then it doesn’t matter if it has 100 hp or 50 hp. I understand it should survive random shots but 100 is too much for a ground weapon…

True about not needing that help there but this change would mostly see impact in the medium ranks (platinium-diamond) where everything goes but at the same time people got the skills to understand countering ,awareness and position already.

Although even in higher ranks Junkrat does see some play from time to time (He’s in the middle not being picked too much but not too little) so people would use the traps more often as zoning tools.

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The exp patch with Junkrat didn’t made him OP, traps break like usual and people were more cautious since traps was pretty much everywhere, getting trap is a rare thing unless it was a messy brawl on point.

Reason being that traps, while able to be deployed 3 times, has a long down time. So if you want to put a trap that can one shot, you need to spend about 21 (They reduced trap cd to 7 seconds.) seconds placing all your traps in one spot.

It’s also good that instead of having 3 traps available at once, you deploy 1 trap, wait another 7 seconds, then deploy another. So that CD puts a cap to the trap availability.

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You wanna buff Junkrat you give him .3 projectile size and 30m/s projectile speed.

There's a second opinion for you.
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If that’s the goal it would be more effective and raise his skill ceiling if the activation time on trap was greatly decreased to allow Junk to reactively peel for his team by throwing a trap at the hero.

The trade off being that traps cooldown only starts when it is destroyed while also giving Junk the option of destroying it himself. The cooldown itself may need changing as a result.

That would lead to greater consistency but only if the Junk isn’t relying on lucky traps. Now that’s not to say that I think he needs this, but if we were aiming to increase his peel ability while retaining the option for area control that would be far more effective without impacting lower ranks as much.

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I do think it might be too much restriction but overall I like the caution.

Unlike Symmetra’s turrets Trap’s up time is only for 1 second really so I like the fact you have longer cool down for more.

Although I do think 6 for 2 would be fair.

But I do think it would be better with charges simply for the fact as a deffender Junkrat needs to place all of his traps before attackers come+ great zoning trap if you know divers come near.

Thnx for the option but my goal here is not to randomly buff him.

I think Junkrat even right now is good as a hero.

I just think more traps would make him a better zoner and would allow it to finally counter heroes he was meant to counter like Tracer or Doomfist that right now can outplay him.

+trap means faster heroes can’t run around you anymore unless they got vertical mobility and it also means you punish mobility much better.

All while allowing him to be a better detector for enemies positioning.

I did write rooting time decreased from 3 down to 2 so already a good start :sweat_smile:

I think 2 charges of traps with 2 seconds of rooting, 50 hp and 6 seconds cool down would be good.

Traps in my opinion should charge up while another is placed simply because of how easy it is to dodge or destroy them especially with 50 hp it would allow Junkrat to make an “obstacle curse” for slow enemies while also allowing him to punish heroes who avoided his trap. Similar to how Symm’s turrets work (which also show how problematic they are considering they should have higher up time then Trap and yet their concept works good for something like a trap…)

I do think that unlike flashbang for example, trap should have a bit more time before activating as it pays for staying much longer and force already fragile heroes to focus it but 2 seconds would be great.

Need is kind of a big word here… Does he need it for being viable? No, but does he need it in order to counter heroes we supposed to be good against and increase his overall uniqueness? For sure.

Tracer has to be the biggest example here. She’s one of the hardest heroes to fight against in the game in term of potential, being countered fairly hard by only torb really in the dps role… (Torb,Soldier,Bastion,Mccree & Pharah work as well for sure but they’re not perfect in that as well and can be outplayed) giving Junkrat the opportunity to use his traps for what traps are all about would both give a simple solution to a common problem and would show the hero is all about really…

Either way we both agree on the direction of this change so I do think it would overall help the hero as it doesn’t do too much in lower ranks where his power comes mostly from his nades but will help medium and high ranks see more unique value out of his trap, no longer being a generic shield spammer but also a hunter.

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The 2 second lower cooldown on using trap was better than 2 traps IMO.

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That’s not what I meant. I was meaning the time from when Junk places the trap to when it can activate. There is a delay that prevents Junk from reactively using it.

The problem with lowering hp is that trap can be accidently destroyed by aoe. That’s extra inconsistency that Junk doesn’t need. There’s even an argument for mine hp being increased to match traps in order to prevent the same thing happening with his mines.

I dont really agree here. He already does very well against many dive heroes such as Genji and Doom. They aren’t what holds him back.

There is no world where Junkrat will ever be a consistent counter to a high skill Tracer without being completely busted against everything else.

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Depends on the usage. 2 traps is better for multiple entrances and against mobile enemies.
Faster trap is better against enemies like brawlers that are forced to destroy the trap before keeping on going.

That’s the rooting part lol. The animation of the trap where it’s on ground and sets up right?

I think it’s pretty fair considering the compositions Junkrat works with and the enemies Junkrat fights…

I"ll start with the easy one of dive and say, they already jump on point and so if they hit trap by damage or by body both means they’re close to the trap.
The only diver who might be able to destroy it by mistake is Winston with his gun but he doesn’t move a lot anyways and his gun is already amazing tool to clean objects so it’s fair…

For poke ofcourse that doesn’t change anything as pokers don’t fight up close.

And lastly brawl I agree it might be problematic sometimes but most of the times you have a fairly easy solution for that, brawlers like playing around corners as that way they can recharge their high protections and keep on the push. A well placed trap can deny that way of playing by punishing the close range poking they do.
For example anubis 1 on the left of the attackers near the small room. You can place the trap before the entrence to the corridor the leads to the room with the health pack (gate->door->room->door->trap+ the coridor->door->the big health pack) and punish brawlers for doing so.

Another thing to take in mind is his synergy with Orisa that provides quite a lot of protection when balanced letting his traps a safe spot to be.

I think considering the traps unlike other objects only care for impact once the positioning of the trap is more important than a place where it has consistent protection. Places like corners or stairs are amazing places to place them as traps for enemies to step on while also making them “immune” to damage.

Worst case they can try playing a bit with their size and hp so enemies would get trapped a bit more easily or the traps would have a bit more hp, but I really think a good trap is a trap enemies step when they don’t expect it.

Genji is a bit of a weird one as only his mines help against Genji. Without them or at least if he would actually need to wait for them Genji would have the upper hand and tbh I think Genji deserves to be better than Junkrat… Deflect is best on bursty damage especially one that doesn’t need too much aim, double jump allows him to avoid trap and Junkrat’s damage more easily and wall climb pretty much avoids the need to go through chokes and stuff like that…

Overall in term of countering alone I really think explosives need a bit of a recovery after throwing them in order to let enemies a time to react as most explosive do a lot of damage in big range while most heroes holding them tend to be weak to dive. (Widow,Ashe,Ana) Not something too big but at least 0.2 seconds…
Either way I agree Junkrat does pretty well against Genji right now thanks to the mines.

As for Doomfist, he is pretty good against him but more traps would be pretty effective at denying rocket punches, especially with faster deployments. Junkrat is good but he still gives a lot of windows for countering by Doom.

Either way, for most heroes the countering comes from his shots and mines, the traps play a much smaller role in that. Which is a big shame in my opinion considering their potential and how unique of an ability it is…

Why not? Think about it mathematically.

Tracer’s power comes from her mobility, we both agree on that.

She can round around her target putting pressure from different angles.

With 1 trap you just deny a single spot to walk on which allows her to walk freely around you. With 2 traps you can cut so much more space from her. Denying every spot between the 2 trap and behind you

Lets say
X=trap
O=Junkrat
V= Tracer.

X O X
. V

Everything above the Junkrat and its trap in this bad drawing is space Tracer can not reach.

While normally you only deny

X O
V

Which allows tracer to reach anywhere she wants but the specific spot the trap is considering she can run to the “right” side of Junkrat instead. The trap has a radius of 1 meter or 2 meters total. Junkrat himself is probably 1 meter himself. And you can place the trap ~2 meters away from you. Ofcourse during a game you don’t do perfect calculations but a normal throw would put it somewhere like that.

Blink is only 7.5 meters…

Just by simple math noting else, you already deny a pretty big zone of Tracer which makes hitting her for both you and your team way easier.

I know Tracer has 12 meters fall off and all of that but making the fighting ground much more risky without a time limit is a pretty crazy countering…

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i thought they did this for an experimental card, that or i am tripping, junkrat needs something since he is bottom of the barrel trash and i would love to see his anti dive potential to be increased

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They did try it during the april’s fools experimental but it didn’t get any highlight or real testing and it was implemented a bit differently… As you know from stuff like moira’s utility they tend to implement stuff not that greatly and then give up on them.

Either way the subject saw close to no discussion So I decided to bring it up after some thinking about Junkrat.

Biggest Issue I found with him was his traps not getting enough respect and focus despite being one of the more important parts of its kit.

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i agree honestly they feel like an afterthought, i could be wrong but i dont think they have been touched since the games release, maybe they have changed damage numbers or something but i dont think they have done much since release

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