The way the healing output is in this game makes me realize when 6v6 does come back, that we need more flankers and people who can be great at trashing out the supports.
All the supports already have insane healing along with getaway abilities. In MR the healing output and ults are all insanely great, however you have iron fist, black panther, magik, etc to deal with this.
We need more dive and flanker characters
Dunno man, half the support roster can evade most flankers, the other half can fight them, but sure why not
Tanks and supports first. I think equalizing pick options across all roles is a better priority.
They canât figure out how to make Genji, Tracer, Sombra, and Reaper work. Theyâre either dead weight or game-definingly broken. Adding more will just divide up the remaining braincells at Blizzard.
Sounds like a great plan for the support players.
OW has quite a few dive heroes already. Tracer, Genji, Sombra, Reaper. Not to mention the dive tanks
Maybe be just remove âpaladin patchâ and return to golden formula when only medpack and supposrt can heal
Maybe remove passive healing instead. I wouldnât be against that either
Strategists in Marvel Rivals really only offer healing and very little else, and its typically impossible to outheal a Strategist who is using their ultimate, unless the attack is a one-shot kill (such as Scarlet Witchâs); so despite the commentary that Black Panther, Iron Fist and Magik work as flankers, even they canât outpace that healing that Strategists do.
All of the above work and function very well. The problem is, that these characters are incredibly dependent on their team for survival, and are more difficult to play than the average Marvel Rivalâs hero.
This sort of falls into the fundamental problem with balancing the game based on popularity, rather than trying to equate the value of the roles. MRâs roster is more generic and homogenized than even Overwatchâs original Supports; but no one in Marvel Rivals has more difficulty hitting things than someone else - none of the projectiles are fundamentally smaller or larger based on role, and none of the roles are predominantly aim-oriented or more mechanically challenging than the others. If you wanted to play a no-aim hero in the Duelist-role, you have choices. If you wanted to play no-aim hero in the Vanguard-role, you have options there too, and likewise, the Strategists are equally varied in terms of mechanical difficulty. Cloak and Dagger donât require much aiming at all, whereas Invisible Woman is more mechanically challenging on the âshoot-to-healâ element than say⌠Jeff or Mantis.
Overwatch doesnât really have that kind of flexibility within the roles. You donât have a Winston in the Damage-role, for example, but Marvel Rivals gives you Wolverine, Iron Fist and, recently, Mr. Fantastic for that kind of cleaving power. And all of them are fairly diverse in terms of difficulty and mechanical operation.
The devs have to figure out the format first.
5v5 you have more than enough flanking because the space on the map is so wide.
You can long to midrange zone flank with snipers.
You got a mobile tank that melts armor while another one can dive to eat all incoming cc and DMG to give the flankers a free lane.
Itâs one of the biggest reasons why 5v5 fights can go quick.
Your sniper gets a pick then you have so many options to overrun the enemy.
If they pick 6v6 that could use a new DPS for flanking.
But 5v5 you got so many heroes and now even a hyper ring from Juno that more flanking ainât necessary.
There are enough flankers in OW, designated for that or having the ability to do it even if it is not their original role.
low skill flankers for low ranks.
medium skill flankers for medium ranks.
high skill flankers for high ranks.
So no.
In LoL players rightly complain about the overabundance of dashing assassins one-shoting the poor supports, there is no point in finding a similar phenomenon in OW with flankers.
Unless you want a huge queue wait time before a match starts because no one wants to play support anymore.
MR has more flankers but also has actual anti-flanker heroes that can make any Spoodermon and Black panther just explode. That is the only reason why MR works.
Blizz is too trapped on defending the divine rights of Tracer/Genji mains to curbstomp any support to allow the idea of heroes that can actually stop her from freely farming supports.
You want more flankers? Then you have to accept more anti-flanker power too. Way more than what OW currently has.
The maps are all highly favored towards flankers with a lot more flank routes and destructible environment.
This is actually ok but I like that MR supports have certain holes in their kits that flankers can exploit, mostly a lack of AoE heals. I play lots of Luna and if a flanker dives me at the right time I can freeze him or keep myself alive but my team is pretty vulnerable now. In OW2 supports can typically pop some AoE heal ability/immo to escape and thereâs nothing lost from the dive.
Well, literally brigs entire existence pretty much lol
OW players have too many stupid dogmas for this to be a thing. Spewing nonsense like âOne shots donât belong in this type of gameâ or âanti heal doesnât belong in this gameâ as if those were some sort of divine mandate.
Imagine a character like Wolverine whose job is to bully tanks is introduced to Overwatch, we wouldnât hear the end of it, or Punisher with a shotgun capable of eating tanks for breakfast while also having an accurate AR, or Namor ruining flankerâs lives with his turretsâŚ
Forcing them to use teamfight cooldowns that are double or triple that of most flankers is a win enough. Sure, Bap can drop lamp at his feet and null a Tracer/Genji dive for a bit but unless they go all in, the flanker wont lose anything. Meanwhile, Bap basically spent the only thing that gives him impact in teamfights to save himself, and that will take half a minute to come back.
Meanwhile, most MR flankers are not very much on free escape cards or ranged poke compared to OW, where the point is a battle of attrition or poke, not ââwin in one initiationââ.
If flankers want supports to be worse duelists⌠there needs to be far more risks for flankers than ââforced to use my instant escape toolââ.
They lose their uptime in the fight. Bap still has his shift, a very good primary heals (that also AoE) and very good dmg too. Supports especially newer ones have insane uptime where theyâre literally always do something positive. Flankers typically have spikes in value where supports are way more consistent.
Dont be daft, those already exist(ed) and their names were Mei and Symmetra.
And they were ruined because we canât have CC (tank players cry)
This is wrong.
Thereâs quite a bit of defensive power against flanking in Overwatch. Aside from the original Defense-role heroes, Supports have plenty of tools to counter flanking and dive attempts at them, from non-Tank heroes. Overwatch has basically evolved into a Defense-minded and oriented game.
This is also wrong. It isnât that the game favors flanking, but rather that the game is built with heroes in mind to explore or exploit their greatest strengths, and likewise, this also encourages anti-flanking attempts as well.
Previous OW1 maps had a fairly narrow set of choke points where the design team wanted conflicts to happen, and this probably unfairly gave too much power to Tanks and defenses. On the other hand, newer maps tend to be a bit wide, but still carry the same routes and still allow for flanking attempts, while defensively, tend to be a bit more constrained.
Every Strategist in Marvel Rivals has area-effect healing.
Same logic and vulnerabilities also apply in Overwatch.
This is false. Overwatchâs abilities, or rather the defensive abilities of Supports are more tuned to simply escaping or breaking away from the hotzone and forcing more effort to be deployed by the attacker. Marvel Rivals applies the same principle, but it is more⌠restrained.
Mantisâs defensive ability is a sleeping tool, like Anaâs, but unlike Anaâs, Mantisâs defensive too can be broken by everyone on the opposing team, whereas, Sleep Dart from Ana (until recently) could only be broken by Ana and her team. And to break it, youâd need a specific character to do it; this isnât true of Marvel Rivals.
Likewise, Loki and Invisible Woman have stealth or cloaking as movement and escape tools with lengthy cooldowns and self-regenerate lost health. But these tools can be immediately broken through damage from the opposing team, and through any action that Loki or Invisible Woman use. Moreover, these invisibilities, do not improvement speed and they are not the only defensive tools provided to them. Both Loki and Invisible Woman have additional tools to keep targets off them, Loki can teleport and reposition a clone, and Invisible Woman can forcefully push targets away; both of these have range limits, and both have fairly length cooldowns as well. Both also, are actions that end any stealth effect on them.
And whatâs important to realize here is that the movement and defensive abilities arenât reliant on other team mates; and that these abilities share movement cooldowns similar to those found in the Duelist and Vanguard roles.
To put it another way, Kiriko can teleport to an ally 30 meters away and gets a 7 second cooldown on that. Invisible Woman can shove a target back 12 meters and has an 8 second cooldown; or she can double-jump to stealth and carry a 6 second cooldown with it.
Whatâs the better defensive tool here?
All those things do exist in Overwatch. Especially Namorâs turrets come in the same form as Torbjornâs. But Torbjornâs lasts forever and have more health and is far more difficult to more and replace.
Yep, exactly.
Supports were designed to be self-sustaining; Damage-role heroes were meant to always work with a wing man.
They are nowhere near as effective as they are in MR though, Namorâs turret are more effective, he can deploy 2 of them, stick them to walls and even empower them with his other abilities. They are an actual part of his kit, Torbâs turret is just there lol.