Mostly Reasonable Genji Buff Suggestions

Just QoL / Consistency Buffs

  • Dragonblade attack rate improved from once per .9 seconds to per .8 seconds.
    • This does not meaningfully improve his TTK against anything, nor increase maximum swing count. It merely offers a bit more leeway to getting his max swing count, from ~.15 seconds to ~.75 seconds. If necessary, we can have it sheath automatically after the 7th swing.
  • Time to draw and resheath Dragonblade reduced from 1 second to .8 seconds each, mirroring that of a normal swing.
    • Faintly more intuitive and less clunky.
  • Dragonblade swings are no longer cancelled mid-animation by running out of duration.
    • If you can begin a swing (literally any duration remains when you hit your Primary Fire key), you can complete the swing.
  • If there is not enough time remaining on Dragonblade for another swing, it will instantly resheath. This will not prevent you from using Deflect. He will now simply resheath his blade with his right hand while deflecting with his left. (He has two hands.)
    • It keeps his last .9 (now .8) seconds from being wasted, self-pacified duration.
  • A new “Queue turning” setting has been added, allowing the player to turn how they will face when having completed Swift Strike (“Dash”).
    • This does not again allow him to curve his Dash, but simply allows lower sensitivity players to continue turning in preparation for their landing, rather than locking in their angle over the Dash’s 0.4-second animation, which can feel awkward and may seem to obligate high sensitivity on a character that’s otherwise mostly fine even at lower sensitivities.

Mostly-QoL Buffs

  • His reload now replenishes his ammo .6 seconds earlier, allowing for earlier animation cancels.
    • Honestly, it’d make more sense for left-hand skills not to interrupt your entirely right-hand reload process at all, but /shrug.

True, but Faint, Buffs

  • Primary Fire attack rate increased from once per .95 seconds to once per .85 seconds.
    • This mirrors the recent .1-second rate of fire increase to his Secondary Fire, which left the Primary Fire feeling weirdly sluggish by comparison.
  • Quick Melee no longer effectively afflicts Genji with a 0.5-second Hack. Instead, it continues to stack recovery times with his Primary and Secondary Fire, thus making it impossible to get free damage from, while leaving him fully able to use other abilities during Quick Melee’s recovery time. To compensate, Swift Strike now “Deals up to 30 less damage against targets who have just been struck by your Quick Melee.”
    • So, the former Quick Melee nerf merely does no more and no less than what it previously intended to: it stops the Secondary-Melee-Dash combo.

Legit Buffs to Make Genji less of an “Ult-bot” (Tentative)

  • Swift Strike damage increased to 60.
  • Quick Melee no longer delays Reload, either, beyond Quick Melee’s minimum animation lock.
  • Quick Melee will now delay Primary Fire and Secondary Fire by only .35 seconds, down from ~.7 seconds.
    • This reduces the DPS penalty of using Melee from ~90 to ~45. Note that this does not buff any optimal behavior, only reduce the penalty of ill-calculated behavior from a minimum of ~70% of Genji’s nominal DPS over its recovery period to ~35%.

Highly Tentative

  • Increase Quick Melee’s recovery time to ~.85 seconds, but have it no longer stack with Primary Fire or Secondary Fire recovery times, thus partly returning the “Free Melee”.
    • This would return the ability to trim excess dagger-throws on his Primary Fire to conserve ammo at no uptime cost and give the point-blank Secondary-Melee option of dealing 114-198 damage per .85 seconds (134-232 dps) alongside his Secondary spam option of 84-162 damage per .65 seconds (129-249 dps).
      • More importantly, this allows allows for a more easily guaranteed 228 damage in 1.7 seconds, to be compared to the normal 252-282 damage over 1.95 second of using QM only to finish the enemy. It’s scarcely a buff, but it does allow further consistency. One basically need be less afraid of using a QM when the enemy might be healed above 30 HP just before the strike lands; instead, they can freely choose between two damage patterns instead of trying to sneak a Quick Melee in only where its uptime cost won’t matter.
  • Quick Melee and Swift Strike no longer interrupt Reload, period. New animation flows have been added for visual fluidity between them, moving the reloading hand offscreen somewhat while showing that the reload is continuing without hindering or being hindered.

Compensation

  • [Do regardless] Swift Strike no longer snapshots so far in advance, and acts much more as a (self-)projectile, rather than alike to a hitscan attack.
  • [If needed, Option 1] Ammo capacity reverted from 30 to 24 to compensate.
  • [If needed, Option 2] Could instead simply siphon .05 seconds of attack rate from left click to right click for purposes of fluidity, though that would be a net nerf.

Let me know if any of these seem overly powerful.


Notes:

Why not just buff his Shuriken damage?

Buffing his Shuriken damage by even a single point allows him to one-shot 200-HP targets even without Dash.

  • 28x3x2+30 = 198 = Cannot one-shot the Soldier.
  • 29x3x2+30 = 204 = You can one-shot the Soldier.

That seems a very risky threshold to push Genji over. At the very least we shouldn’t pretend it is a small or granular buff. It isn’t small, and nothing outside of beam damage is ever truly granular.

For point of comparison, let’s consider a 60-damage Dash.

  • x3 Dash-Melee Combo — 3/3 Hit, 0/3 Headshot; 2/3 Hit, 1/3 Headshot, etc.
    • 28*3 + 30 + 60 = 174, up from 164.
      Boosted: 226, up from 213.
  • x4 Dash-Melee Combo
    • 28*4 + 30 + 60 = 202, up from 192.
      Boosted: 262, up from 249.

While these would be almost equally important thresholds, those thresholds aren’t unique (a single headshot extra would already do that difference and 18 more damage besides), can be healed through to make a life-or-death difference, given that Dash take .4 seconds to deal its 50 (now 60 damage) — making it merely 125 DPS (now 150) — and require a crucial cooldown. That change would additionally increase Genji’s steamroll pressure, as with Nano it would only take two cleaving Dashes and a Quick Melee or single Shuriken (or Dash-melee and two Shuriken, etc.) to completely kill a 200-HP target, greatly improving his chain-kill TTK via Nano without using Dragonblade, but, again, in a way that is (1) not unique, (2) can be healed through, and (3) requires ability use (and thus can be denied by saving any ally that would otherwise afford Genji a Dash-cleave upon their death). It’s a more power in situationally significant ways, but almost completely leaves the enemy their ability to outplay it. (I say “almost completely” only because I hate using absolutes. In virtually every functional way, 100% of their outplay ability remains.)

8 Likes

I am really not willing to give away my 30 shurikens though.

Could I tempt you with a

?

Just trying to figure out how far to test the waters here, between Genji mains, normal folks, and ninjaphobes.

1 Like

Eh no buffs needed
Nerf his ult to be inline with other dps

8 Likes

Nah i would just give him the 31 damage on his shurikens and more fire rate on his primary and it would be done for me Ez

(He has 2 hands lmao)

1 Like

lmao (20characters re

They’re all technically buffs…

1 Like

Increasing any higher than they did (i.e. to 29 damage per shuriken or higher) allows him to one-tap with triple headshot + melee. I doubt we’ll ever see him able to kill enemies, unboosted and without even needing a Dash, in .01 seconds as he would then.

Make it so his blade can’t be damage boosted first. Then maybe.

2 Likes

nerf his blade duration so he can only kill like 2 people max if theyre separated- that’s rly all he needs anyway

Buff his midfight by making m1 as fast as m2 and dash dmg increased to 60

1 Like

Do we really want to arbitrarily exclude ults without even any mechanic by which to provide an excuse?

Dragonstrike, for instance, at least has its initial arrow’s damage boosted. Thereafter, the summoned unit, as with a Self-destruct, B.O.B., or Rip-tire, is not boosted. You can boost the B.O.B., or you can boost the Ashe, but not both at once. That makes sense. But Dragonblade?

What possible excuse do we have for, say, removing that interaction from Mercy and nerfing her even further? There’s no summoning involved. Mechanically, it’d be the same as having removed the ability to boost Tac-Visor, for instance. Why must the interaction receive zero value when it should be receiving its most? And let’s not even start into the incredulity of, say, removing it from Ana but then leaving it on Mercy.

3 Likes

There’s already a precedent. Hanzo’s ult. And we all know the summoning thing is an excuse.

2 Likes

But it’s literally all summons and only summons that cannot boosted?

Also, weren’t Mercy’s damage-boost interactions with Dragonstrike and Self-Destruct removed as a byproduct of Mercy’s Secondary Fire changing from a dynamic boost to a unit-snapshotted boost (i.e. one which affects damage units, rather than applying a global damage aura, and therefore literally cannot affect summons through their summoners)? It feels more like Ana’s boost was then simply changed to follow suit for balance between the only two boosts in the game.

Note that all the external indirect boost (Discord) still work on all ults, even though it allowed potentially 300 additional damage to a target in .01 seconds of application (via Self-Destruct). (Roadhog thought he could Vape through Self-Destruct? Well, not anymore.)

1 Like

lol then why would anyone use dragonblade

i will just use shuriken and have better and safe kill potential

dragonblade alone allready lackluster without damage boost

genji shuriken alrleady deal 168 damage in 1.3 sec if u land all shoots, 336 if headshots

why bother to use melee range weapon that deals 120 damage in 1 sec, when u can deal damage from distance, and potentially deal far more damage if land all your shoots?

on theory genji deal 2 times more dps with right click (if u land all shoots) vs dragonblade in 6 sec

For the same reasons they use it right now—cleave potential and damage floor.

The only DPS change suggested here that would affect whether you would ever want to ult is the increase from 88-176 DPS to 99-198 DPS on Genji’s Primary Fire, which remains noticeably inferior to his Secondary Fire (129-258 DPS) when optimally positioned, and Dragonblade’s increase from 133.3n to 150n DPS (though it only reduces TTK by .1 to .2 seconds, which is, again, negligible).

But, given that maximal Dragonblade-exclusive DPS has been, however minutely, increased, while Genji’s optimal out-of-ult-exclusive damage has not, why would Genji merely being allowed (alike to Orisa’s Protective Barrier) not to interrupt Reload with Quick Melee or Swift Strike (which… does nothing to actually accelerate how quickly the Reload completes) suddenly make Genji never use his ult again?

While that would indeed be significant, you’d remove all reason to use M2. The slight bit of added tracking to use M1 optimally isn’t nearly so detrimental as the fan/spread on M2. Even now, M2 sees a very small optimal range span against any but the stoutest targets.

1 Like

zzzzzzzz i was quoting the wrong person

i was about to reply to ayembic about this post

Some of these are legit amazing but we all know it aint happening.

Remove dash from the “hitscan”-category first before thinking about buffs and yes, considering latency it is actually a hitscan no matter how Blizzard describes it. There are many situations where i could have prevented my death by dash if dash wasnt hitscan. Best example is: Genji dashes but gets teleported back into Junkrats trap he triggered but im dead because something that should have stopped him, didnt do it just because… yeah… Blizzards incompetence to programm it correctly… like how they cant change Echos ultimate because they cannt programm it so she dies when dying while copapasta’ing an enemy hero. “Just deal with it” doesnt work in a game you wanna sell as a competitive game and trying to build an esports scene around it.

Consider it done. The same annoys me from the receiving end.

That said, there may still have to some degree of shooter-first code or the like, so I’m still not sure how great a difference it will effect.

The problem i see is the genji blade damage is a little low because with the secundary fire u can made almost the same damage as the blade

Sorry for the bad english