One the biggest reasons double shield was a thing is because shields just do everything.
They also do better anything other protection does except for matrix but still…
If we had more abilities that are strong on shields and weak to the other protections, shields would be even less of a problem.
We have a lot of shield destroyers and shield passers so what I ask for, is more abilities that straight up pass shields like Moira’s orbs+ultimate. Things that have clear weaknesses other protections would be able to take advantage of (slow, low damage, high cool down, impact increase on shields etc…)…
For sure, I refer to the balancing of the current game.
Can’t really talk about something that only happens in minimum 1 year and in the mean time, need to balance this game as well.
Like with other hero releases, you buff and nerf accordingly.
The tank category feels awful, so by adding this change I expect them to be able to buff tanks back.
The more counters a hero has, the stronger it can be without feeling op after all.
The devs just nerfed her hard when they saw she succeeded for some reason…
Either way another big problem of double shields is just that they do everything other do but better so I guess that’s also an important thing to note, but the more heroes you allow to be good on shields, the less shields are useful and more situational so you’d use one tank for shields in case of a hit or something and another for a different tool to help with shield weaknesses. Like we had before.
Although I would like to hear what do you mean by “rework shield tanks”. In what way?
More shield bypassing only means fortify and grasp become more useful, while Rein and Winston become more useless, meaning you’re driving back to double shield not away from it.
Depending on how the ability works. Each tank and what it is good against…
If to give an example with Moira’s orb (not a strong ability but the way it works is a great example). Grasp can’t really be used too often to stop orbs and fortify only reduce the damage- but something like matrix can easily block the orbs when they come.
I can also give an example with Gravitic flux. Orisa might be able to avoid it but Sigma can’t. By having Zarya for example you make sure both tanks can survive it.
The more normal abilities that ignore the shields, the less you rely on shields by avoiding them and the more power you give to abilities that block damage in different ways.
At the end fortify only gives you immunity to headshots, knockback and damage resistance and grasp only allows you to stall projectile damage for some time and then long cool down.
As long that you make something both can’t really deal with or at least not deal with the best, the more chances heroes that do counter it see play.
I just try to ignore Ow2 as a whole. It’s minimum one year away which is pretty far and if I don’t notice it, it might go away.
That’s the neat part, who said it would be a dps or a support?
I mean, you can go for many new support and dps that destroy/bypass shields and it work as well mixing the roaster but the faster way is making a defensive tank that can also counter the comp from range. That would shake things up pretty nicely in that aspect.
But… but why? It’s a buff for Bastion.
If right now it has no way to be played because it has no protection (and its terrible balancing doesn’t help). Adding counters to shields in exchange for buffing shields would allow Bastion to be more played because shields would be able to see some buffs both helping him to survive AND getting countered by it.
All those examples just confirm what I said: You would need abilities that Rein and Winston don’t have, meaning you’re pushing more in to Orisa Sigma, not because of their shields but because they have alternate abilities that are not shields.
But you treat it like there are only 4 tanks in the game.
What about D.va,Hog,Hammond & Zarya.
All 4 have some sort of protections as well in one form or another.
I even talked about how only D.va and only Zarya are able to stop some attacks.
I’m not ignoring the other tanks, I’m just mentioning those who would be indirectly nerfed by shield-piercing - and I think it goes without saying those don’t need to be nerfed at all.
Dva is already arguably the best tank in the game, not affected by shield piercing, would probably be made even more required by any such ability.
Ball is also up there, among other things because of self sustaining CD, again, not a barrier.
Hog pretty strong, among other things because of self sustaining CD.
And Double shield isn’t strong because “shields do everything” but because both Orisa and Sigma do everything. Their shields aren’t special, Rein shield doesn’t do everything, but he doesn’t have self sustaining CD plus CC plus ranged damage that can all be used while the shield in up. Orisa and Sigma are overkitted, shields are fine.
Shield piercing abilities would make those already strong self-sustaining CDs and bloated shield tanks even more necessary.
I’m not sure if that’s smart thinking considering we’re guaranteed to not get any major hero changes between now & OW2 Any changes are going to be in OW2, and shield piercing abilities will make solo shield tanks (like Rein/Winston/Sigma) cry
Ooooh, Now I get the point. Sorry for the misunderstanding in that case.
I would say it’s less of a nerf overall and more of a power shift considering I increase shields hp but also increase amount of countering. So while some cases would be worse some actually would be better and you’d pick your tank choice both by protection and playstyle.
So shields specifically become more situational allowing for the rest of the kit of tanks to shine in term of other protections, damage and playstyle.
For example Rein is better than Orisa in the field of anti dive considering his aoe damage and even charge against some heroes like Winston or D.va. So if you want a shield AND an anti diver at the same package you’d pick rein.
Winston is a shield for divers, only he can really provide.
Why not? When you look at 99% of the damage in the game, it is blockable by shields and can be blocked more often by shields than anything else.
Shields have much more hp than any other protection, protect the whole team and not just one target unlike bubble or hook and in theory have an up time of forever unlike these protections. If you miss a hook- you have no 2nd chance. But if you use a shield in the wrong spot you can just turn it off without too much punishment.
The other protections have a place to shine as well for sure, but most of the times shields would do the job much better than anything else.
True, but it’s not like the devs ever reply here on the forums or even respond. The closest thing we have is community managers that only respond about concerns with Overwatch 2.
So it’s just a subject for discussion and theorizing.
I would gladly answer. I always enjoy sharing and listening to ideas
Before getting into certain ideas. The general goal I have overall, is that if you can block it with something else without too much problem, no real need for shields to stop it.
Most shields are used to deny instant damage you can’t really react to in time and damage that isn’t too high so hp based protection can block it.
So couple of ideas can be:
Lightning bolt that increase in damage the more objects it hit. Lets say you hit a target, it would move to any target in 6 meters radius or less and do the same thing for it, so the more targets there are the higher the damage. Since shields are an object it would count them as + damage and move to the next target.
Ghost gun- give up on damage in exchange for accuracy. Goes through every object and even players but in comparison does very little damage (Maybe 30 damage per shot? Something very weak)
Slow projectiles- Moira’s orb, Symmetra’s old secondary. If it’s slow enough to react to with matrix or just moving. Why not allowing it to cross
Certain beams- I get why something like Zarya’s beam that has 15 meters range should be blocked by a shield by Mei’s beam is only 10 meters and has more than enough tools to block it like bubble, fortify, range or anti damage abilities (warth form, ice block, fade) should shields really be a counter to that as well?
Powerful, yet rare Ball: imagine you throw something like Hammond’s roll into the enemies. For sake of countering even let it be hooked like how Symm’s turrets. You give enemies enough time to react allowing for things like bubble or Hook to counter it really well.
There’s ton of ideas for things that pass shields. The main problem is mostly finding stuff for the protections we have considering there’s really not many of them. Not saying all of these ideas are good but I am sure at least some of them can be a big help.
It’s a buff for Bastion.
Any changes are going to be in OW2, and shield piercing abilities will make solo shield tanks (like Rein/Winston/Sigma) cry