More Crowd Control Hurts Low Mobility, Not High Mobility

General Discussion
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Hi, all.

I wrote all of this out in an attempt to address the issue I have with mobility and CC. They seem to be very apparent issues with the game, at least to me, and I’m curious as to what you all think about the issue.

Hero Roster
Let’s look through the hero roster really quick…

CC Effect No CC Effect
Ana Bastion
Brigitte Genji
D.Va Hanzo
Doomfist Mercy
Junkrat Moira
Lucio Reaper
McCree Soldier: 76
Mei Symmetra
Orisa Torbjorn
Pharah Tracer
Reinhardt Widowmaker
Roadhog Zenyatta
Sombra
Winston
Zarya

Of course, you can’t look at all heroes abilities in a vacuum and judge them, but let’s continue There are currently more heroes in the game with some form of CC in the game than there are heroes with no form of CC.

That seems… off. I don’t play many games, but to me it seems like having a form of CC should something special to the hero; however, it’s more common for someone to have CC than to not.

Crowd Control Doesn’t Counter Mobility Well
Surely with this much CC in the game, mobility doesn’t stand a chance… right?

Quite the opposite.

Mobile heroes are more easily able to escape CC effects than low mobility heroes, especially with how much mobility a lot of heroes in the roster have. Having more hard CC in the game doesn’t counter mobile heroes – it simple makes the lives of low mobility heroes even worse.

The current meta right now is Tracer, Genji, Winston, D.Va, Zenyatta, Lucio (maybe switching out a DPS for Widowmaker, or Lucio for Moira/Mercy). This is the Dive Meta, and it’s been around for over a year now.

Notice that only one of two of these heroes have some form of CC (Winston/Lucio), but that isn’t even why they’re picked.

Crowd Control Does Counter Low Mobility
If having over half of the roster able to use some form of CC, a lot of it being hard CC, doesn’t counter mobility, then what does it do? Like I said - CC counters low mobility heroes.

Take our beloved Mei, for example. Sure, she can make Genji and Tracer have a hard time, but they’re easily able to get away from Mei so she can’t freeze them. The only way a Mei can counter a Genji/Tracer is if those other two heroes are making the mistake of getting close to her. Now, put her against McCree or Ana. These two heroes can’t escape Mei – if she manages to get close to either of them, and they don’t have good enough aim and reaction time to stun or sleep her, they’re dead. Almost guaranteed.

Now look at Brigitte.

Sure, she can do a fine job countering Genji and Tracer – IF THEY GET CLOSE TO HER. Them getting too close to her is their own mistake; they have the mobility to escape her and avoid her stun. A Reinhardt, Zarya, Roadhog, or Ana don’t have that option. If she manages to get close to them, they have no form of escape to get away from her. Thus, they’ll be stunned and bullied into submission unless they have team support (which can be hard to find, despite it being a team game). I love playing Brigitte, but she does have issues in her design. “Don’t get close to her” doesn’t always work, especially for tanks.

Personal Issues
I love this game. I really do. It’s my favorite multiplayer game (Stardew Valley, Terraria, and Skyrim beat it overall), and I’ve invested quite a lot of time and I’ve bought some lootboxes for the events.

But I’m really, really struggling to have fun lately. If I try to tank for my team, I spend a lot of time simply being beaten up and knocked around since I don’t play much Winston or D.Va. It’s downright miserable trying to tank. As for healing, I tend to play Ana (my account says I played Mercy the most, but I haven’t played her more than once in 7 months), so once again I tend to be fodder for other heroes since she’s so vulnerable.

There’s just so much CC in this game anymore, and since mobility is so incredibly strong, my games are filled with mobile heroes that annihilate my slower playstyle. Sure, I can survive and even win sometimes, but not often. It makes trying to play the game I once loved a miserable experience rather than enjoyable.

Maybe Mobility and CC Need Looking At
The devs want the game to be fast paced and action packed, and a lot of people claim that “if you want a slower game, go play Paladins or Pokemon,” but that isn’t my point. When the game was first released, we had a very slow Deathball meta, and then Triple Tank meta. I adored those metas, and a lot of people I played with enjoyed them too. With Dive and mobility being dominant for so long, now, it’s gotten very hard to get a good game.

Even then, the games I do enjoy tend to be CC-less, slow games with Reinhardts, Zaryas, McCrees, Soldiers, Reapers, Mercys, Anas, and Zenyattas.

If mobility were tuned down, as well as CC being far more valuable to a hero’s kit and design, I think the game would be in a far better place. If using a mobility effect meant a lot more than waiting 3-5 seconds for the cooldown, or just spamming the space key, it’d be far more skillful and impressive to see people who can manipulate those heroes. If CC was more valuable, less spamable, more effective against mobility than it is low mobility, and much more hero-oriented rather than over half the roster having CC, it’d be far more impressive to see someone able to use it to their advantage, as well as being much more fun to play against.

I don’t know. Maybe I’m just a slower-playstyle person, but I think if these two things were changed in a way to where they meant more, the game could be in a far better place.

Until then, I’ll try my best to sleep the Tracer/Genji/Winston/D.Va than enter the backline with ease every 10 seconds.

See you all around. :two_hearts:

9 Likes
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I find it interesting that your example of “CC-less, slow games” includes some of the most CC and mobile heroes in the game.

S76 and Mercy are two of the fastest heroes in the game. Ana and McCree are CC focused heroes. Reinhardt and Zarya have the two most powerful CC abilities in the game, tied with EMP.

I’ll also add that deathball and triple tank are unlikely to ever return. It was unhealthy for tanks to make dps heroes obsolete. You may like it if you don’t play much dps, but it wasn’t healthy. Imagine if the meta became to not run healers, and instead S76 and Sombra had their healing buffed enough to support the entire team. That wouldn’t be healthy either.

That said, I do agree with your point that CC hurts low mobility heroes. I think in general if a high mobility hero is hit by CC, they’re punished harder, but they are given the opportunity to escape it. This makes it feel interactive and overall more fair and fun. With low mobility heroes, whilst an individual CC is less lethal, it certainly feels less fair and fun. I think the real issue comes about from CC stacking though.

A high mobility hero is hit by a shield bash, they die. They failed to dodge it, they got punished for it. A low mobility hero gets hit by it, they might not die, but they leave themselves totally exposed to hooks, flashbangs, sleepdarts, hacks, etc. Being unable to avoid that first CC left them unable to avoid all the subsequent ones, leading to a death they couldn’t avoid. I don’t think that’s ok.

3 Likes
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I’m with the consensus that having low-mobility heroes being juggled around the way that they are is pretty awful and as a fellow Ana player who hates watching Tanks getting knocked around like bowling pins, I do feel like this is something that needs to be addressed sooner, rather than later.

It’s not fun getting Shield Bashed into the Shun Goku Satsu from Street Fighter.

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Zarya and Reinhardt are exactly what I mean by heroes with good CC design. Their CC is encompassed in their ultimates, and both of them are counterable abilties. They’re extremely strong CC abilities that can be outplayed, but are extraordinarily valuable when used under the right circumstances.

As for Ana, her sleep dart is incredibly high skill to use when compared to something like Brigitte’s stun, and has a long cooldown. It also fits what I’d think could be considered a good CC ability. Flashbang also has a decently long cooldown, and it a pretty integral part to McCree’s identity and kit.

Mercy and Soldier also have good mobility aspects. They can save your life in some situations, but don’t feel to absurd or annoying to play against.

Overall, I think these heroes are a lot healthier in the aspects of CC and mobility when compared to Doomfist, Junkrat, Tracer, D.Va, and heroes like that. They feel fair to play against, personally, and I tend to enjoy playing against them. I think their designs are amazing and something to be looked after.

I honestly didn’t even consider CC stacking when I should have. I also think that heavily adds on to the issue of CC hurting low mobility, like you said.

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There should be a hero that punishes other heroes that use abilities that enhance speed or something. That way you won’t hurt slow heroes. It wouldn’t affect them.

Maybe some kind of ability that freezes Genji if he charges or double jumps, rein when he charges, Tracer if she blinks or recalls, Pharrah or Dva when they boost, and so on.

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that’s what we tried to warn you about. That any possible mobility counter will DESTROY non mobile characters. But you kept asking for counters. Mei buff and more CC. Now enjoy.

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I only wish I could give you more upvotes.

You are so correct on so many things - some of which I THINK are designed to be that way though

I think she is there to counter tanks, not mobility heroes. If they WANTED her to counter mobility heroes, they would but an anti mobility power in the freezey spray.

She is however beloved!

I’d accept a cooldown reduction for increased range on the bash for that exact reason.

She was put in to counter dive, which means countering the diving Winston / D’va mostly. A whip on the incoming Winston gives him a choice - either pop shield EARLY or don’t get to pick where you land.

That is how she counters dive. She counters lower ranked tracers, but, damn, when I go scrimming, the tracers up there DO NOT go near her.

Sadly, she counters other heroes pretty hard (Rein, to some degree, Mei she just shuts down so very hard)

These are ALL true things. Especially Stardew Valley. The number of overwatch players who also play a lot of stardew valley is a thing.

Anyway, I loved your post! It really sums up how a lot of people feel.

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Mei’s buff wasn’t as a mobility counter. We asked for it, because she needed it. We have been asking for an Ana buff as well, but that isn’t for mobility countering either.

Reapers buff wasn’t against mobility, nor is Hanzo changes.

Mei wasn’t about mobility, it was just that it was needed (like any hero with sub 1% pick rates…)

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Like some kind of ability to hack them so they lose those abilities. That would be pretty sweet.

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Hmm. Do you think your definition of “good CC” isn’t more to do with it being countered by barriers? As I agree that being beaten up through your shield as Rein frankly feels awful, and I don’t think they were explicitly set up as tank busters.

I think that as for Mei and Junkrat, they’re heroes that explicitly built in to ensure that the game doesn’t come down to just two Reinhardts staring each other down whilst their teams hold m1. I think that’s a necessary element. I get not everyone will like their playstyle being countered, but that’s just their job.

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I can almost guarantee that it comes down to Reinhardt bias haha

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yeah, CC stacking is really out of control now it seems. scrims with brig taught me that shield bash + hook is a very easy combo to do, it’s basically a free rein kill, and there’s nothing the rein can do about it. that extra 0.3s over flashbang allows a lot of leniency in timing. i don’t mind having CC counter flankers in theory, but of course people are going to use it on more than just tracer.

i’ve been pushing for a cripple ability in the game for a bit now and i hope it comes before the devs decide to add yet more CC to the game in a clumsy attempt to counter mobility. somehow i don’t think people pick main tank to get screwed 6 ways to sunday all game.