Moira not taking "Mechanical Skill" to play

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WARNING: TL;DR

Ok so, this is a hot topic and I too wanted to state my opinion on the matter here because, why not? So, after listening and watching Samito’s vid on Moira, I really had to stop and collect myself. First off, just to let you know, this topic is not about “nerfing” anything on a hero or if a hero needs nerfs. No, it’s the age old question that people have been using as an excuse just to get a character buffed or nerfed for no reason. That being “mechanical skill” on a hero (Not to confuse “mechanical skill” with real skill)

So to start, according to Samito, from what I can see, if a character apperently takes very little “mechanical skill” to use, they are deemed trash and need nerfs/buffs to fix this issue. Let’s look back at some heroes who had changes like this. Remember Symmetra? Goodness. She wasn’t even HALF as good as she was now and had to get “skillz!” because apparently, people hate “instant lock on” despite her barley dealing damage. So, if that is the case, and heroes who really aren’t OP need “mechanical skill changes” then Mercy clearly needs to start getting “mechanical skill” because just "holding down left click or L1 and getting “instant heals” or “instant power boost” and have the ability to fly to any hero when locked on them is clearly a “no mechanical skill” thing yes? Oh and Mei who has ice that can freeze anyone within minutes (even multiple enemies) that requires very little aiming. Or Zenyatta who gets instant lock on for who he heals or Winston as well. Yup, they all need to change. In fact, anyone that has this kind of mechanic needs to be changed immediate because I say so! /s

Sorry, but this is laughable logic at best (if you even want to call it that) At the end of the day, I don’t care (and most probably do not either) how much “mechanical skill” a hero has. It’s about winning and choosing the character that you can win with and do well with for the team in counterplay.

Just because Ana had “mechanical skill” doesn’t mean it gives you the right to pick her over other healers you are good at and suck at her and make us loose just because you felt she required “skill” to play as. I want to win, and I won’t be giving you any praise or a pat on the back for you just because you choose to pick a Ana since you thought “Well they require “skill” so I can;t go wrong!” and you made us loose when should have went with someone you are actually good with REGARDLESS of skill. Do you actually think OWL players care about if a hero has “mechanical skill” or not? No. They want to win, and for that, they will choose heroes who can do well kit wise despite their “skill” and play them. Skill is a WHOLE other ball game and those with “skill” can pick up any hero, good or bad, and win with them. Game sense and common sense also play a role along with the skill of a player and NOT the mechanical skill of a hero.

So I guess any player who doesn’t play Ana for example or Genji has “very little skill” then huh? Yeah sure, uh huh. That clearly doesn’t stop them from picking heroes “without” skill and winning for their team because yeah, last time I checked, winning is what matters when in comp? Also, not to mention most people win because their “skill” is naturally good with certain heroes and NOT because not everyone can use heroes that others can use. I can’t use Moira to save my life, does that mean “I suck?” because I can’t use a hero that “everyone” else can majority or not? Last time I checked, I have seen very terrible Moira’s why? Their gameplay sense and awareness of the field and situations does not equal “ez mechanics” Two entirely different things here.

“Skill” is debatable among people and there are people that can play well with certain heroes (with or without "skill) and others that cannot. Just because Samito feels that character requires very little “skill” doesn’t mean others do not find Moira challenging in any aspect, mechanical wise OR overall common sense wise. Moira dealing too much damage? Then give her a small nerf, however, that doesn’t equate to now meaning she needs a kit rework for her “sKILlZ”

“Whhaaaaa but I am a DPS and I don’t get gold medals on attack despite playing as a DPS whose job is to do soo and Moira takes them all WHAA” (Not all DPS mains say this of course) Yeah, so what about Tanks who get gold medals or a lot of kills over DPS? That isn’t their job to do but they can also deal the kills? Should they now get nerfed to oblivion for it? A Winston who gets more kills that you needs to get his gun off lock on right? Please! If you aren’t getting kills as a DPS, then that is YOUR issue and need to get better. Not healing enough? A Roadhog/Soilder out healing you? You need to get better. It doesn’t even come close to “mechanical skill” but how much skill a player has over YOU.

Samito lost to a Moira player who was able to use her correctly, and then cried about it. Moira was never deemed “OP” until now all of a sudden so the hive mind is back it seems. If people loose to any hero that imo, is balanced, then that is your issue. Counterplay for Moira is strong and if you don’t counter the supports? Another issue on your end. All heroes are counterable and can be taken down, but if you lack the self awarness of a situation or natural skill to play as a character, then yeah, you will struggle. Not to mention the team coordination needed and if they need nerfs/buffs or not. It all boils down to too many factors that contribute to a hero, and not “mechanical skill”

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Nice post - the problem is at the end of the day Moira like Brig 1.0 simply has too much sustain without much input necessary for damage and healing output - hence the nerf. It’s always been a problem.

Frankly the more you guys fight the obvious the worse it looks on this. She’s clearly overturned at the lower tiers and undertones higher up.

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She might not take mechanical skill but just like every other hero she needs gamesense positioning and ult tracking

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When it comes to nerfs, I am not sure in that regard. I find her balanced, but again, this post was not about nerfs/buffs particularly. Just the whole “mechanical skill” thing aha

If Moira needs nerfs/buffs that will be up to the dev team but yes another issue? The whole lower tiers and higher ups thing. THAT needs to be separate in terms of characters because when you nerf a hero who is better higher up but suck at lower? They only get worse for them, so who has the right to complain? Higher tier players only? Those who are diamond and above get the say over lower tier players? I mean, I get it, they prioritize them for OWL possibilities and such but it’s unfair to all those gold and below who make up WAY more of the playerbse than Diamond and above. Feel me?

This is why the game is messed up when it comes to nerfs and buffs I feel and I tend to find it messy but I digress.

Exactly. I feel every player needs “game sense” and self awareness I personally feel. As a player, it is what separates you personally from the rest of the flock and determines who wins and who looses. Not “mEcHanICal sKIlLZ!”. Someone who took YEARS to train with Ana might fight someone who is naturally good at her and learned her in 3 months and can still out beat that Ana who trained for 3 years despite “mechanical skill” Why? Because their game sense, personal skill, reflexes etc. out beat the other players’ and had a natural affiliation for the hero… Some can play Moira well and others can’t. Why? Same thing. Just because Moira has “no mechanical skill” means squat since I have seen horrible Moira players who couldn’t prioritize not heal for the sake of them. It all boils down to individual thinking/feeling and team coordination.

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No the problem is dps tears just like it was with Brig. OMG a healer that can actually defend itself cant have that. I mean where is brig now, huh ??

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Until they make using Moira more risky and/or punishing in some way, Moira will always be seen as an ez hero because plenty of other heroes that have to aim also have to worry about all the other stuff in Overwatch.

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I know what you mean. However, that is the problem imo. I personally really don’t care about “risk” or anything. If I can counter her, beat her, and she is within means of doing so, she is just like everyone else. If the majority have little to no problem with her, then well, perhaps that is the way to go. Everyone is punishable in some way, more or less than others just as some have more “mechanical skill” than others, but make everyone the same, and how is that going to gibe us unique heroes?

The issue is half of the Supports are horrible now due to nerfs and Moira is literally the last leg the Supports are hanging off of that can hold her own. Get rid of her now? Good luck finding most players who will want to Support. Same to the Tanks. There is a reason they are giving lootboxes to people wanting to play them. Nobody already wants to lol Such a shame.

Now this guy Samito is talking about “Mechanical skill” and how Moira needs a rework with all of this going on LOL It’s hilarious.

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people who defend low skill are like people who eat nothing but junkfood. cant see past short term gratification to the serious long term problems.

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Skill and “mechanical skill” are two different things entirely. Not even close to the same. Mechanical skill is the hero’s kit and how they function. Skill is how the PLAYER uses their attributes on the field and determine the outcome of a battle by playing with a hero. Skill by far, is what matters along with game sense, self awareness and team effort and coordination.

My point is Samito is talking “mechanical skill” which has NOTHING to do with how well a player plays, which is skill. You can have the easiest hero to play as all you want, but if you, as a player, have no skill with them or game sense, than that doesn’t even matter because you won’t be able to use them. Same applies to those with a “high mechanical skill” like Ana. Just because she requires “mechanical skill” doesn’t mean others who never played her should choose her over someone who they can play as that has “no mechanical skill” That is what I am saying here.

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People who play a Hero hear what they want to hear and say what they want heard. Moira is the easiest hero by far.

Moira’s ‘positioning’ is basic, much lesser than other supports, even Brig and Mercy, Moira is supposed to stay behind the shield and heal.
Every hero needs to ult track, This is more crucial in other heroes.- Genji, Orisa,
Sigma

And ‘Gamesense’, again needed by all other heroes. All the other supports require much more than Moira, due their a special utility skills.

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I agree with this yes, gamesense, self awareness, game track and team coordination. It all stems into play. It doesn’t matter how much a hero needs, if someone can’t play that hero, they won’t be able to lacking such. I feel everyone has a “different amount of sense needed” but not by too much. If Moira was that easy, then I should not see bad Moira’s at all, which I mostly do since they lack the ability to utilize the senses.

I wouldn’t say so personally. I feel Mercy can be within the same category easily as Moira. Mercy can heal long distances and stay behind shields. Moira still needs to be on the field to battle. She can’t just sit back and throw her healing orb all day, especially when Moira’s healing is one of the best of all Supports right now imo. However, Moira’s “mechanical skill” is just fine. If Moira needs nerfs/buffs? Up to the devs but I find her manageable but that is just me aha My issue is Samito claiming “mechanical skill” actually has a place here.

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Moira is balanced rn.
I don’t think Moira needs nerfs, but would like to see an increase in her skill floor.

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I feel the same, but others? They find it different. Again, sadly, it comes down to skill. If the player is good with Moira, hey she needs nerfs! If most players are bad? She needs buffs! Low tiers and high tiers are different and this is why nerfing and buffing is messy. They go to the higher tiers and miss look over those in lower tiers making it harder for them to use the “already hard hero” because those in low tier lack the skill, game sense, etc. that higher tiers use when playing. So in the end, a fight breaks out and the game becomes two entirely different games for whoever’s skill is where they are.

So in the end, people are actually trying to “nerf” those players with skill over those that don’t technically and that is why it’s wrong imo and hate getting into “nerf/buff this” debates (unless it’s majorly obvious as in both low and high tiers are using them and have zero reprocissions) because everyone’s experience will be different from where they are placed tier wise and I don’t find it fair to listen to one side over another.

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so in general, I don’t feel Moira needs nerfs, but also you have to realize this community views the opinions of DPS streamers as gospel, and nothing can change their mind.

Moira causes problems to DPS in gold and below, so to them she’s OP, Plat and higher I’d say she is negligible.

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i agree. sad to think all the people can think of in terms of changes is “make her need aim like symmetra” when even if they changed things, they’d still call her a “no-aim” hero… just like they call symmetra…

as someone who plays her quite a bit, if anything should be “made harder” to “increase the skillz” i would suggest lowering the amount she can heal from a full resource bar but increase the rate it replenishes so people who aren’t just holding down left click will hardly notice a change. and one day i’d love to see her get some sort of very mild utility to manage, but as things are currently i would absolutely wait a bit. idk it’s Wild how recently most people agreed she needed a buff or some utility bc she was dumpster-tier and now because there’s a few barriers she’s op just because she’s being used. lmao

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dude its always like that. Something becomes meta, if the DPS aren’t getting a free kill on a support/tank, ( especially by DPS streamers) just scream “OP/Broken” until Blizz caves.

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This is a very long way of saying that she is far easier than pretty much every other character.

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Which imo, is why they are trying to get Supports and Tanks to play right now. It’s because all of the nerfs done to the tanks and supports that nobody wants to play them anymore and have to actually bribe them with lootboxes to play them LOL. We have way more DPS than Support and Tank and right now, nobody wants to play them, but lets try to nerf Supports and Tanks anyways /s They are just giving people more incentive to play DPS and wait 10 minutes long que times. It’s hilarious a bit and sad to say the least.

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Thing is she arguably doesn’t, even if her Biotic Grasp is a beam, it is still so forgiving that you don’t even need to be good at Tracing to deal damage. And no matter how you try to spin it it is still frustrating to deal with. Because the amount of effort she has to put in vs what she gets in return is unbalanced.

If they reduced it’s width, so you have to actually stay on target, they could actually have it scale up, so she effectively does more damage and stays alive longer. If you like Moira, and are already good with Zarya and Symmetra, I can’t understand why you would not want this. It’s a buff at the cost of forcing you to actually aim a little more, and rewarding you for it.

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moira requires neither