MM secretly locks Roles & Denies certain Roles to Players

Competitive Discussion
1

The title might sound like a conspiracy to some but after reading a lot of posts, reflecting on the game and its strange Matchmaker, its becoming more clear. Its a breakthrough for my own understanding and now everything kinda makes sense. For those that are smart enough to already know, great but i am sure many don’t so i figure its important to post. This is not exclusive to ranked, a lot of what i observed was from casual.

The game literally prevents players from playing and succeeding at certain roles even if they are skilled at it where as it rewards or at-least gives a better experience at roles they might even be weak at without their consent in any way.
This post is not arguing against the natural variability in performance caused by a player’s obvious differences in skills,play-styles at certain roles nor because of balance of power differences between roles.

However this is arguing for the point that even if a player improves a lot on each role they can get vastly different almost reverse of expected performance of their given skill.

‘How is that possible?’ ‘What are you even talking about?’

Good questions. I will try to explain through practical examples by how matches play out.

  • Tank Role:

    In many games i push, apply pressure even if i create all the space its often useless because of the MatchMaker giving me teams that literally stay behind the whole match. MM is actively prohibiting me from tanking by giving me the worst teams to work with as a tank, passive,campy, ‘waiting for a shooting gallery to pop up’ types. It does not matter how much i changed or improved my play.
     
    I dont consider myself a great tank but if i am honest i think i am at-least average or a bit above now but some other player with half my skill might have double the impact as a Tank. ‘How?’ Simple, they actually get great teams to work with as a tank, the one’s that follow, that dive, and want to attack.
    For all i know that rare actually ‘Carries as a Tank’ player might just be pressing forward key and getting wins where as others like me are beyond frustrated and forced to give up the role even tho they like, understand it and want to play it.
     

  • Damage Role:

    Also known as the carry role but not for me anymore. WHY? '‘Of-course its because you suck at it, cant aim or clutch’ an answer that would normally suffice but i will explain why not at-least not for everyone.
    I used to carry as a DPS, i was rewarded for every little bit of skill improvement atleast in performance if not by more wins.

    My aim more correctly effective hitrate, Damage Output PerSecond is almost doubled than before in just the last few months (i am 100% sure of improvement because of the exact same testing grounds, strafing enemies workshop), Positioning,Awareness is better than ever was (can actually hear directional sounds of enemies after a certain setup tweaks, whereas before basically couldn’t hear a thing)

    Despite that my performance on DPS is the worst it has ever been! Even more than when i used to miss on turrets and standing still Reins! ‘How is that Possible?’, ‘You are surely insane or lying hard’. Nope i can explain with a simple but accurate answer. The MM is giving me far higher skilled enemy DPS players that shut me down hard. Instead of being rewarded like i used to or naturally expecting to be performing far higher than before the MM actually prevents me the DPS role now by giving super skilled enemy DPS players that basically dont allow me to do anything by insta killing me. Even the Tanks actively hunt for me.
     
    Skill really doesnt matter when the Matchmaker can make the most Carry Role into a Feeding,Frustrating Role for you when it wants,if it wants. It always has more power over you than you could imagine. It leads to an overall false perception of a role’s capabilities and flawed reasoning for some players which i dont entirely blame.

    The strongest Role could be weakest for some not necessarily because of lack of skill or practice but because of downright evil manipulation of the matchmaker.
     
    DPS is still the best role if you have been chosen as the TOP DOG in a match. Its the most efficient and fun if you outskill the enemy team especially out dueling the enemy DPS but if you are unfortunate enough to be chosen as the Underdog, its suffocating and useless.

  • Support Role:

    Undeniably the weakest role for those that understand the match-ups between different classes. Not Tanky or Beasty like Tanks in a 1v1 or 2 nor having high DamagePerSecond,poke or team wiping ults of DPS.
    Its a very team dependent role probably the most both in terms of kills and for not being free food for any hungry enemy Tank or DPS. A solo Support is nothing by design in Overwatch.
     
    Yet Despite that i have the most impact on my matches as a Support these days. Is it because i am a great Support or so good at team work?l No. My solo skills arent great by anymeans but without a doubt my teamwork is at a much lower level it really does not come naturally to me at all.

    Again ‘How’??’ i really hope you are not answering with ‘itz cuz supports are so OP in the game’ lol.
    Its actually because i am getting passive,campy,sniper teams the one’s that you dont want as a Tank but work great for as a Support. Easy healing & staying alive behind, near my team, pocket the Carry DPS and get an alright maybe even a good match.
     
    In a way opposite of the DPS role. Not great and potentially a waste of a slot if you are the strongest in a match but for a weaker player in a given match its a good role, if you cant carry at-least don’t feed.
     
    Lucky for me i actually like healing tho sometimes i wish i could carry again but it still bothers me that i got horrible teams as a Tank and never got to see the improvement,the impact i should have. Maybe tanks actually are indeed the strongest role for those that actually get the right type of teams for them to work.

  • Closing Thoughts:

    Whether you agree with or not the matchmaker consciously denying certain roles to a given player, the end result is still the same. Players getting counterintuitive experiences on roles because of the way matchmaker arranges matches sometimes.

    Even tho the premise of the post seems rather negative i think overall i can end on a positive note by saying that if you find the hidden role the matchmaker wants you to play even if its your weak one, you will have a much better time where as on other end be prepared for a lot of pain if you chose the reverse role for a given match even if its your highest skilled & overall the strongest role in the game.
    This should explain the frustrations of RoleQueue for some players. I would try OpenQueue more if players actually half tried but sadly so far its playerbase seems to treat it even more casual than other modes.

4 Likes
2

This is a lot of words to try and give a reason why you suck at a certain role. It’s not the matchmaker hating you for playing a certain role, but it is most certain YOU not knowing how to play that role correctly.

10 Likes
3

gather round children! for i will now tell you the tale of the flex que mythology and how an ancient warrior tried to defy the gods.

it all starts when our hero presses w, out the doors our hero went! hammer in hand, glad in metal armour, steadfastily moving along with his other heros behind him. little did our hero know, but the enemy was waiting for this exact thing!

attack!

the enemy ambushes our heros friends and our hero doesnt turn around to help them…look at all this space our hero has made! but wait! why is no one behind our hero?

our hero forgot his basic instincts for survival…for the hero was not raised by wolves, but by a farmer. and so never learned the lesson of pack hunting!

after learning this valuable lesson, our hero decided on his next quest that they would change the gear, so our hero swapped the amour and hammer for a cowboy hat and a 6 shooter, raised on the farm, our hero would always practice shooting targets, but they all stood still on the fence, and in the heat of battle one must trust their instincts…

our hero leaves his homestead to vanquish the enemies that surround his home…unleashes the 6 shooter and gets 6 kills! the glory! the honour!

but something was missing for our hero…illness over took him, and so the next time the enemies came around, he was unable to protect…

fear not for our hero though! the guardian angel has come to save the day, staying in the backline flying from hero to hero, our hero does their best to fly between heros who need health or dmg boost…but since our hero swapped the 6 shooter for flying abilities and a gandalfian staff, relying on our heros heros’ to clean up the the enemies they failed…resulting in our winged hero trying to escape…but to no avail…

our hero prayed to the gods, old and new, looking for an answer to it all…but when you stare into the abyss too long will eventually find the abyss staring into you…

4 Likes
4

There’s a lot of truth to this post. It is completely impossible for me to climb in the tank role because Blizzard decided I should not climb despite the fact that I have improved massively. I believe this is their way of trying to make me play it more to achieve a certain rank. Blizzard please stop doing this. Frankly it is completely unacceptable.

1 Like
5

I mean honestly, its just as valid of a topic as any of the other matchmaking topics. :thinking: :rofl:

This guy also seems to have a REALLY sound mind just like the others.

4 Likes
6

You dont get it dont you? I dont expect you to tbh not all of us have open enough minds or the desire to seek the truth.

is most certain YOU not knowing how to play that role correctly.

That is precisely the point i am arguing against. It doesn’t matter how bad or good you are. Its less about your absolute skill on a role and more about picking or filling the correct chosen but untold role that the MM wants you in a given match.

That is inherently unrewarding, uncompetitive, unnatural and counterintutive all because of different weights assigned to players and their expected role slots for a match.

2 Likes
7

I am going to offer a simpler, alternative explanation.

The problem right now is the lack of players, particularly at either end of the spectrum. Lets say you are 2400 SR, and the game has only enough players to construct an average game of say 2000 SR. It has one stack, lets say 6 players all exactly 2000 SR, thus the enemy team is 2000 SR (not realistic, but you see the point). Your team, with you at 2400… could then generate a team with available players of 2000 by a 5-man stack of 1950… most likely a mix down to 1800… the problem is the MMR range is wide that it creates problems based on the fact it doesn’t match MMR per role per slot. So a game with two higher than team average SR is likely going to easily counter or exceed a team with say two Supports that are the higher SR players, or even DPS. Unless the matchmaker has enough players to construct teams on a per slot basis, its always going to feel this way. It’s an ugly downside of 2-2-2, that two good players on good characters say tanks will easily carry a team over another team where the two good players are on one role different, or separate, say one above-average DPS and one above-average Support…

Add to that, the core playerbase (like me) are die hards now, so everyone is now improving at the same rate. Today’s “Silvers” are literally where Golds were about 24 months ago or so… to even exceed the player-base you have to put in loads of extra time to climb. This is leading to rampant alting… which is only making it harder for well constructed teams and matches to take place…

TLDR: We need per slot/role matchmaking to occur, not just for teams.

1 Like
8

yea i get why that happens. What i said was dumb because the matchmaker might not have enough equally skilled players.
I am not even mad at the adapting part, i just don’t like the fact that your experience varies so much just on the role you pick. If you are the big fish, the strong player you almost always want to be the DPS where as if you happen to be the small fish its likely the worst role and you will only feed.
Despite that at-least you can adapt given your place in the match and you could say that alone makes OpenQueues far better than role Locked Queues with such matchmaking.

1 Like
9

Where is evidence? replay codes with examples? Numbers?

You start with proposition that you need to be smart to get this already. I would argue that if you are smart, this will be nonsense for you and just fancy way of making up excuse why you are not climbing on certain roles.

3 Likes
10

Ahh the old ‘GitGudders’ are here. You know what i have gotten pretty good. Yea i cant fully prove it because its impossible to prove absolute skill when conditions,teams vary so much. Why don’t you find another thread? You know the answer to every matchmaking related post is not in what you people are programmed to say it is.

You are def not smart if you think this is nonsense. If you dont understand you have no idea of what goes on in actual matches, you dont need numbers to get something anyone with some experience and brain will know to be true.

1 Like
11

So are you only looking for reaction from people who agree with you? Just curious if you are open to discussion or not. Or if your opinion on this topic is impossible to change.

Sure i dont know what is going on in matches. Thats why I climbed on all 3 roles from bronze to diamond. For somne maybe small achievement, but for me it is enough to understand how matchmnaking works.

And btw, before you believe to something, you should actualy have evidence first. Or do you believe anyone what they say without presenting evidence for extraordinary claims?

2 Likes
12

All I see from the OP is a bunch of ancedotal observations. The game can’t control how other people play, if you get teams that do XYZ bad thing, that’s just those players doing that bad thing. The game doesn’t know they’re going to do that… this is silly.

5 Likes
13

man. this forum is starting to look like some kind of Overwatch-themed Infowars.

4 Likes
14

Were you solo queue or in a buddy stack?

15

hahaha. It might not be trying to be evil lol.
All of this might just be a consequence of a poor matchmaking. The point still stands and will only be potentially solved by a much better matchmaker that avoids much higher & low skill players in the same match or by totally changing the balance, the best & worst case performances of each role. How practical or possible that is, i dont know.

17

Both, I made runs with doing solo Q, and even in 6 stacks from LFG, I didnt climb to diamond there tho from LFG but I was still climbing by using LFG, I would say its just slower than solo q.

3 Likes
18

“The Truth” is that if you play well and improve, you will climb.

I don’t believe it is a coincidence that the moment I put time into improving my gameplay I have also started climbing, from Low Gold ALL the way to High Masters on all roles.

But yeah, it is way easier to just blame the matchmaker for hating you or some weird bs

5 Likes
19

The matchmaker isn’t a person. It doesn’t have feelings, and it doesn’t want anything. It’s software with a very clear purpose:

Get people into games as fast as possible, that are as fair as it can make them.

People accusing the Matchmaker of doing all kinds of silly things are just looking for excuses to fit their perceptions.

Here’s what I recommend:

Take a spreadsheet and fill out the following columns:
New SR, Heroes Played, Role, Map, Attack / Defend First, Notes

Put 100+ games in there, at least 25 in each role, and see if maybe there are some different patterns that you can see that really don’t have anything to do with the matchmaker.

Come back and share the spreadsheet with everyone and maybe someone will help you calculate some data and help you discover where the actual problems are.

Maybe try out this guy’s spreadsheet: https://www.reddit.com/r/OverwatchUniversity/comments/c7ivs7/overwatch_game_tracker_19_for_google_sheets/

It says it’s for Season 17, which was the last season before Role Queue, so it doesn’t support separate SRs for each role, but you could have three copies probably (or 4 if you play OpenQueue too)

1 Like
20

He may need to stick with torb.

21

I feel like threads like these give Blizzard waaaaaaay more credit than they deserve.

It’s a little hard to believe that their algorithm is so complex that it analyzes every movement of every single player enough to make a that characterizes each player with a 100% accurate profile (regardless of good days, bad days, and circumstantial changes and probability) and spends the entire queue time specifically rigging matches such that you, and specifically you have to stick to one role that’s been arbitrarily assigned to you.

I think the better explanation is just people at your MMR suck. And that’s not really meant as a dis on you, but they just don’t know how to push with tanks or focus healers, they just shoot what’s in front of them and play CoD scare tactics when shown a minor threat. And again, since the matchmaker isn’t perfect, sometimes it does well and matches you up closely, other times it doesn’t. Just because it misses the mark sometimes doesn’t mean it’s rigged lol

This… is literally exactly what I’m talking about.

All these conditions can vary a lot. So… if you can’t make a video and point out your skill play by play… why are we assuming the matchmaker can do the same in order to rig these matches when it surely can’t account for nearly as much nuance as a live human?

3 Likes