Mercy was not "nerfed 10 times", let alone 15

No, because cast times already exist in the game. See Genji’s ultimate.

They took that, and then applied further restrictions.

And Pharah’s rockets already exist with 120 damage. But it’s still not a nerf to helix rockets if it were first introduced with 100.

Just because a different hero has a specific ruleset beforehand doesn’t mean that they’re not allowed to put a different ruleset in when doing something new.

Except Rez was not first introduced with those limitations, either as an ability or as an ult. It had those things taken away. It’s not a new ability. Cast time isn’t new limitation either, and does not inherently come with those restrictions. They are separate and distinct changes that all combined to one new version of rez.

It’s a nerf combo. People are free to continue to view each individual item as separate and that’s valid. It’s also valid to say “it’s all one combo,” what is weird is when you try to claim only your way of viewing it is factual.

If you order a number one combo at a restaurant, you might get a burger, fries, and a drink. People who consider that getting three items are equally as valid as people who claim that they got one combo.

But the cast time was first introduced with those limitations.

That’s why I’m saying the addition of the cast was a nerf, but the limits that came with it are mere details.

But in this example, the fries, burger, and soda all exist seperately beforehand.
You can’t have a slow down or interrupt without a cast.

It being a pre-requisite doesn’t make those things inherent to abilities with a cast time. Cast time abilities exist that offer none of those things. It’s separate from just the addition of a cast-time, and can and is viewed as different nerfs by many people.

It’s a mere difference in opinion in categorization.

This is all I have to say:

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People keep bringing this up as if I didn’t address it already and say yes, it counts as an exception.

I’d remove this then:

Just write this by itself and you’d still get your point across:

At least read the whole bullet.

Maybe just make it clearer? You start your point off with you suggesting that bug fixes aren’t nerfs but then talk about the exception later on. Obviously I’m going to quote the sentence I’ve read first that I don’t agree with.

Except in our case, Helix Rocket already exists.

But it’s not a nerf because if it didn’t exist, it wouldn’t be a nerf, right?

If a “cast time” means an inability to use other abilities while casting but free movement (see Sound Barrier, Sleep Dart, Blizzard, Earthshatter, Molten Core, Dragonblade, Tactical Visor), and the developers add a cast time and other restrictions on top, then that’s more than one nerf.

If you nerf a hero’s fire rate and a hero’s damage, you didn’t apply one nerf to their damage output; you nerfed the hero twice.


I’m used to people actually reading what they’re talking about so they don’t make fools of themselves.
I forget that this is the internet where people will just read 1 bad sentence and immediately jump into the comments to complain without knowing what they’re talking about.

I even put an asterisk there, thinking that people would realize that hey, there’s a note here. Guess not.

Usually people make the exceptions clear before they start to articulate their points. Apology accepted nonetheless.

Or people can’t just use common sense and address the exception before elaborating on their point.

Just make it clearer so then you won’t have more people making the same mistake as me. :man_facepalming:t2:

Literally /thread.

And that’s the TL;DR.

Number of nerfs is completely irrelevant. All that matters is the result is balanced.

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Does anybody remember the time they nerfed Lucio 60 times in one patch?

They reduced the radius of his speed boost from 30 to 29. Then from 29 to 28, 27, all the way down to 10!

That’s 20 whole separate nerfs, all at once!

Then they did the same with his healing radius!

That’s 20 more! It’s 40!

But here’s the thing, each of those healing radius reductions ALSO reduces his ult charge rate. We count that as a separate nerf, so that’s 60 nerfs!

Crazy how many nerfs you can squeeze out of a single change when you try so hard to be unreasonable. It’s pretty fun actually, I can see why the mercy mains do it.


The bug fix is considered a nerf because it was a well known interaction that was fine for about 2 years until both Mercy and Dragonball became meta. It was much easier to just say that it was a bug fix than a nerf.

Mercy players don’t care about the specific number of nerfs. it’s just that they (and many other players) were never happy with the rework. It’s extremely frustrating to them that instead of admitting the reworking was a failure and trying new ideas, they nerf her repeatedly to the point where she is no longer fun to play.

But, yes. The number of nerfs is often exaggerated. Any number higher than 10 is grasping at straws, and I’m not quite sure what raving lunatic is playing with semantics and saying that she’s received 24 nerfs.

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It must suck to practice a hero and then find out she’s been changed the next day… 9 times in a couple of months? So inconsistent.

I certainly count 11 direct nerfs in there that made it to live version right there indeed. =p

Each has a load of indirect nerfs attached to it, but none more so than the 50hps nerfbat which broke the camel’s back. People can play better and with different tactics like ressing behind walls if you nerf utility, but -17% in direct healing capacity, a primary core kit, is not something people can get back and thus her winrate is now the only negative winrate at GM ranks. A troll pick.

Nice to see you too Jelly (or Jam) :smile:

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OMG Why does Blizzard forsake Lucio mains