What a well thought out reply explaining what agency Mercy actually loses…
Oh wait it was a non answer to both how Mercy loses any agency or why other players should lose agency.
Given that I assume that there is nothing more to say on the subject and that we can drop the nonsensical proposition that being able to cancel res as the res target causes any loss of agency for Mercy and in fact adds it to other heroes.
Yeah it would be really helpful to have this! I’ve been in both situations and it’s not fun at all.
Mercy loses agency because a decision she’s making is being taken out of her hands. That, by definition, is losing agency. The questions is whether or not that’s a problem.
Both me and SleepyReapy think it is. In order to rez, Mercy is thinking about positioning, evaluating the worth of the rez (especially with the cast time), and planning future flight paths. Her decision to rez suddenly being interrupted with no indication disrupts all of that.
That idea is awful because, in a setting with not everyone in voice chat, the mercy extends to get what would be a clutch rez in a chaotic fight… only for it to get cancelled by the ally.
I like your original idea of an indicator so the mercy doesn’t try it in the first place instead of awkward denial.
She can still make the exact same decision. The only difference is whether or not the other person wishes to come along with that decision. All of the things you described she can still do.
The ONLY difference is that instead of the other person losing agency, which you are seemingly okay with which shows how hollow your argument is, the other person now has a choice about whether they want to come back to life or whether they would rather come back from spawn. Nothing changed from the Mercy’s evaluation perspective, now the other person has a choice about whether they would like to be alive or not.
If she has no control over the outcome of the decision, what’s the point of her making it? If the final say is in another person’s hands, the choice is theirs, not hers. At that point, her res basically becomes a suggestion that someone has to give the go-ahead to.
In the game now, the only things preventing a res are direct interventions from the enemy or mercy herself leaving the range of the soul. One is her getting outplayed and the other is usually a mistake. Why make her have to try and read her teammate’s mind, too?
In this case, as I said, I think mercy losing the agency of getting to res unimpeded is worse than the player losing the agency of spawning in the spawnroom. My argument isn’t about maximizing agency accross the board, it’s about rez specifically as it relates to the mercy herself.
Except that good mercys are thinking ahead. If they know the res will work, they’re thinking about the future of the fight and the flight paths they’re creating. That being interrupted through no fault of their own is a problem.
That’s not to mention the possibility of tilted/toxic players that don’t trust their teammates to make good decisions.
So before I jump into this I was eating dinner today and watching Flats to get the rewards (right after reading this in fact but I got busy with work after so I couldn’t reply), and the thing that made that game stand out is that it was on Rialto and the cart was being pushed to 2nd point. The enemy had a Mercy and I could see by how she was flying that she was about to res a dead Sigma. While executing some nice movement she got in position to do it and while she was hitting it 2 more deaths happened. She got the res though and the Sigma was staggered so hard they couldnt group up to contest 2nd point and it ended up likely costing the game.
It was not even really a big misplay but it is a common one. You cannot see everything as Mercy so she could not see that the fight was lost before she hit the res, but if I were a dead player at the time I would absolutely know that. Such actions are a VERY common occurrence certainly more common than some imaginary toxic teammate.
It is like saying Mei should lose Wall or Sym lose teleport because some toxic player could wall in their team or teleport the team off a cliff. As an aside nothing stops this imaginary toxic teammate from just running straight off a cliff or afking in the enemy team out of spite. If they are willing to throw the game out of spite why would one way be assumed to be different than another.
Meanwhile by your agency logic if Soldier/Rein/Winston somehow gained an ability called ‘Superior Officer’ which let them upon death push a button that prohibited Mercy from doing anything but GA until they got ressed or respawned by your logic that somehow adds agency to those players but in reality it doesnt and just takes it away from Mercy.
If what you desire as Mercy is agency over someone else’s actions then yes cancelling res would take some of that away but she still has 100% control over her actions which is really all you should have in this game.
I fear I’m not entirely understanding your point.
I agree that misplays like that are common, but the answer isn’t to allow the soul to cancel rez. It’s to learn from the mistake, move on and regroup for the next fight.
Nobody’s arguing that rez should be taken away. My argument, applied there, would be that another teammate shouldn’t be able to cancel wall or tp for any reason. It’s up to the mei or sym.
No? Again, I’m not sure if I’m just misunderstanding you, but my logic is that no player should be able to directly interact with a teammate’s kit. It just creates problems across the board and takes agency away from the player.
As a soul, choosing to cancel rez is directly messing with Mercy’s kit and decision making.
Except that respawning isn’t an “action.” It’s a feature of the game that happens every death no matter what. Mercy interfering with that is in no way the same thing as her taking an action in someone’s place.
Choosing to cancel rez, however, is. It’s like if I could force rein to cancel charge. It puts him in a bad situation and is super disruptive to his gameplay.
the problem with this is that it removes agency from her already team dependent kit. imagine going for a res you yourself know is safe but that other people think is crazy and they decline it even though it would’ve gone amazing.
a symbol for when your teammate is switching is fine though, as long as it doesn’t stop the mercy from ressing.
I think if it just made your body red and/or put an X over it, that would work for me, and I’d not try to rez. I’d even be ok if it prevented the rez as long the player had to make the choice as soon as they died, and not near the end of their death timer. I’d hate to work to get to a body, just to have it switch at the last moment. But I figure if you knew you wanted to switch, you’d just hit the bottom as soon as the option popped up.