That’s not what I meant. I mean to say that this specific group of Mercy Mains unintentionally caused the rework to happen, not specifically Valkyrie.
Even then, the old ult wasn’t actually Valk. It was just chain beams. No flying, faster movement speed, or enhanced regen.
Very well said, and thank you! Yeah it’s indeed kind of sad that there is this perceived “bias” against Mercy players as all only wanting one thing. My only hope is that more misconceptions on them are cleared up like this one, and people actually look into the research on why people feel the way they do instead of making assumptions on them.
And I also agree, like if we think about it, what ultimate isn’t annoying to play against? The whole “This ult is annoying to play against, therefore remove it” argument is one I don’t really agree with, since it kind of ties into the “fun is subjective” argument.
Well… What’s “Un-fun to play against” is also subjective. So I’m not sure as to why that qualifies as a reason to rework Mercy, but the “She isn’t fun to play” anymore isn’t. The whole argument on justifying subjective opinion as fact is just a bad idea in general when it comes to balance in my opinion. As you said, Mass rez wasn’t overpowered… and especially not compared to how Valkyrie actually was when it made her a must pick. But that’s just me 
Thanks! And yeah it was pretty sad to see only 4 people go up when it clearly said 5. You have no idea how dissapointed I was haha. I assumed it was some sort of strange glitch that didn’t register the res properly or something. 
That’s fine, we’ll have to agree to disagree on that.
I think we’re being a little obtuse there.
Which ultimate has chain healing? Valkyrie or Mass res?
Of course the answer to that is valkyrie. I never said that it was “100% exactly Valkyrie to the smallest detail”, but the concept of Valkyrie existed way before the concept of mass res, which is the point. The devs even say that the chain healing ultimate “has come around full circle”. I think it’s safe to say that Valkyrie was the same concept as it was in pre-alpha + the bells and whistles it has today, and in the very least, existed before mass res - meaning that the statement of “mercy mains caused the rework to happen” is by definition, objectively false.
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls 
Says the edgy-on-purpose Reaper role-player? If you don’t want a discussion, feel free to hit the back button.
Thanks for this, OP. We have to keep pushing on. I’m tired of people just lying back and taking whatever Blizzard decides to screw them over with. We have to keep fighting against these bad changes, MAKE our voices heard. If they can blatantly ignore our voices, then we can just keep on pushing.
I honestly feel like you didn’t read the other thread (the one you’re very obviously responding to) and are just going off of the title.
The thread is about how because Mercy players wanted the invincible Res buff, that buff led to the whole “Hide and Res” problem and ultimitaly the rework.
However true that claim is is pretty debatable, but, like, no one is saying that Mercy players wanted the rework to begin with.
I doubt they had and have numerous ideas of each hero. How about that group of Mercy mains summoned that horrible ancient monster, now it really fits in cult theory)) they asked a power and wish was granted.
I don’t want this to just turn into one giant echo-chamber (even though it usually turns out that way for one side or the other), but recently I realized something that I want to kinda get off my chest and get other perspectives from it.
So, Mass Rez was reworked because it was unfun and “disheartening” to play against, right? Well, a lot of Mercy mains think that’s a dumb reason to rework and change the ult. Even I think that was a poor reason and I don’t even main Mercy! If anything, I main off-tanks. But recently, I realized a perception in the community that is a double standard that we have with Mercy.
If, let’s say…someone dies from Tactical Visor. Or Dragonblade. Both of those seem to be ultimates that are not deemed fun to play against, right? If not, then we can just sub those out for an ult that is unfun to play against that can rack up a good kill count. Death Blossom, Deadeye, Riptire, Self Destruct, whatever you feel is most unfun. Well, when people die from those and people claim they are unfun, for the most part, it is not the fault of the one who is ulting. With ults that can wipe a team, people pay more attention to how fun it is to be the one using that ult. It feels good to launch D.Va’s mech and get a triple or a quad. It feels fun to use Tac Visor and get both supports. It feels fun to use Dragonblade and dash through the enemy team and wipe out half of them. It’s not fun to be on the receiving end, but it feels fun to use the ult, and that’s what matters.
So why is that not the same for Rez? Most of my playtime that I have on Mercy was back before the rework, and Mass Rez was a fun, engaging ultimate. I didn’t even get 5x. Most of the time, it was 2x, 3x, or 4x. I seldom got a full team rez. But I still had fun using it. So why is it that with rez, it was changed because it felt unfun to be on the receiving end of it? Hide and rez wasn’t really much of a problem because it wasn’t a valid strat. The Mercy players I saw were healing the entire time, and just got to a place where they could do their job and still be out of LoS of any enemy ults. They were more “taking cover” instead of “hiding”. Just like a lot of other ults that are “unfun” to play against.
I love how this is completely identical to standard internet clickbait.
Numbered list? Check. Vapid content? Check. Word count padding? Check. Hashtag? Check.
Seeing as there are a huge number of people who believe Mercys did was the rework, and Titanium gets crap for copy/pasting responses to the same falsehoods or relevant topics that keep being claimed but doesn’t when linking to a thread, apparently that makes the answer “yes”.
Sure.
This list is an exercise in the “Silent Majority” fallacy. I think there’s like 1 or 2 points that don’t commit it, and only because they commit a completely different one.
I hope you’re not some kind of journalism student…
I feel like this simple answer should be enough of a response after 14+ months of the same arguments and discussions. But somehow it still feels like it’ll never be put to rest.
Jeff stated back in February of 2018 that they want to put the idea of a “Mercy revert” to rest, and yet we’re still here trying to over-analyze what he said and what Blizzard’s intentions are. The intention is literally just that: Blizzard wants Mass Resurrect gone and the current Mercy is what they want.
We don’t need to keep going all FBI on this topic.
People do seem to be adding extra stuff to Jeff’s words. What’s funny is that you’re complaining about people who literally read the quote word for word.
Resurrect is pretty iconic, but I don’t think it had anything to do with her popularity. I think Mercy is/was popular with people who want to play Overwatch but don’t actually like the FPS hero shooter genre. That covers people taken in by the lore, people roped in by significant others or friends, and Blizzard fans from WoW (mostly).
I’m not complaining. I’m just stating that Blizzard is going to do whatever they want, and we just need to accept that. If you don’t like it, stop playing their games and stop buying their products. I’ve played Blizzard games for almost 16 years now, it’s honestly something they do constantly with their games; they’re notorious for crazy changes and balancing acts.
do you mercy mains have lives? are you kids in school, coming home every day and posting online, because you don’t have jobs or things to do in your spare time? do you really need to devote yourself to this stupid task every freaking day?
do you have social lives?? are you people okay? is there a reason why you’re flushing all your spare time down the toilet every day for no reason?
You have worded that a lot better than I ever could, thank you so much for the breakdown! That is exactly my point in terms of the “unfun to play against” argument when it comes to Mass res.
For me personally, my most HATED (like I absolutely hate when it happens to me in-game) ultimate to play against is the D.va bomb. Not because I think it’s OP. Not because I feel it’s cheap. But because it directly lets me know that my positioning sucked, and I was punished for it, which as a mercy main, is insult to injury (since you essentially live and die by your positioning as Mercy).
Did I like the ult? I actually did! In fact, I loved it when I wasn’t being hit by it. Using the ult when I played D.va myself, I understood how rewarding it felt to get a huge bomb. Hell, I was so excited about it that I saved my first nooby 3 man D.va bomb POTG and posted it on Youtube.
But I still hated going against it. Did I say that D.va needs to get a rework because I personally hate playing against it? Not at all. Because I understand that my personal “feelies” about it are subjective, and not everyone feels the same way about it as I do.
Like that’s how I feel about ults in general. Like… They are supposed to be “ultimate”, like yes, when it hits you, it’s supposed to kick your teams butt in some way through giving them a huge advantage. That’s the point of building that ult charge. That’s the point of saving it for that turnaround moment!
I think the problem is when we start using the “unfun to play against” argument to justify making sweeping changes to a hero. I understand how yes, it completely sucks to have a team wipe be undone by Mercy. I just don’t know though. I can’t shake the feeling that it could have all been handled a lot better. And part of me believes that because of how mass res was basically “written off as unfun” and reworked without someone stopping the team and going “Hey, how about we actually try to balance it instead of pushing something entirely new on Mercy players”?
Like, I’m sure a lot of thought went into Valkyrie and maybe they actually thought that the majority of mercy players really wanted it over mass rez and didn’t see it as a problem. I’m also glad that there are people who still find current Mercy fun (like seriously, I wish I can live vicariously though you if you actually still find her fun and engaging to play and understand why you do). I just can’t help but be left wondering how she would have been, had they actually given it the seemingly infinite chances they’ve given this rework before jumping the gun off of a subjective opinion.
I’m sure people enjoy Valk, and whoever does, more power to you. I just wish the devs would realize that there are actually quite a bit of people who still enjoyed Mass rez too, and no longer find her engaging with the drastic change to her ult. And with all the ults that aren’t actually fun to play against but are not given reworks but rather, tweaks, it looks pretty silly seeing that as one of the initial reasons as to why the devs went through with the rework with Mercy.
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
Not only versus mercy we have double standart, because there is two teams, one gets benefit from ult and other gets “unfun”. I think there was some few troubles with old mercy, and she was still useless above diamond.
SR bug with on-fire. Literally boosted some mercy to higher rank.
Hide and seek - a really nasty trick, but it really helps to set yourself on-fire, then you need to survive or afk respawn until other ult.
Duo power - just damage your waifu dps, who can do aim and win, or at least you don’t fall hard from high rank, but it still “soft” throwing, because you still underperforming at not yours rank.
A lot of us like the idea of Mass Rez because it made a way to punish bad ult economy and bad ability economy. It punished over commitment of resources in a way that no one else does. There SHOULD be an incentive to manage resources better. Not only that but on teams where the Mercy was competent and we saw over spending of ults, then Mercy pulled off a huge Rez to save the fight, it was a huge play for the team and felt amazing as a teammate. (I say that as someone who not only played Mercy but also played over half the roster including barrier tanks.)
It felt terrible when you had a Mercy that would not try to coordinate and was purely ttrying to boost Rez count for SR and that was a bad thing that needed to be fixed about the SR system. SR being over rewarded for bad play shouldn’t be a thing left in the game for any hero. Why is the solution to fixing the bad SR rewards reworking the hero that is most able to abuse it instead of fixing the system being abused?
I can see the argument for and against Mass Rez, and I think no one who is against Mass Rez is actually giving it a fair shot to think about what it actually does to the game besides pissing off people like Seagull after he stupidly overspent ults on a stream and failed to kill Mercy 7 times, let Mercy do what we all know she does, then blames Mercy for his failure.
Mass Rez forced certain considerations with the threat of it being erased. It made engagements have to be more tempered instead of everyone charging in wiping their damage out of their pants in a contest to see who has moar DPS and can unleash moar hurt moar fast. There were comps and there were moments for stuff like that; namely flankers flanking more to take out a key support, which you don’t see nearly as much of anymore and instead see more zerging head on.
I want to see the day where tactical approaches involving resource management are a viable approach again (Mass Rez was a fail safe for that tactic and enabled it in ways Trans and Barrier just can’t) but I want every tactic to be able to be shut down with proper counter play or proper target priority.
One thing I have yet to see anyone else do is looking at the Rez itself to make it actually counterable instead of making Mercy easier to kill to stop it from happening. Once a rez starts, its guaranteed value that cannot be stopped and cannot be denied no matter what you do unless you spend one shot abilities which still is value in that it forces the expenditure of resources. No other ult has that, and no other ability has that. There needs to be a way to stop it from completing if it is to EVER be balanced, either as a single target ability or a group ability. Honestly, if Rez had a proper way to stop it once it started you could remove the cast time and LOS checks and simply adjust what stops it from completing and then it would be very easily balancable and would have proper counters instead of it relying 100% on if you can kill Mercy first. This 100% shuts down hide and Rez before it even starts and would have fixed everything about Mass Rez, but not a single person wants to take the time to actually think or dive into this concept.
I’m all Gucci about that. If they can do whatever they want, bringing back mass Rezurrect is a possibility.
Did I say that? I have always gone by Jeff’s words. This time, I am correct when saying that mass Resurrect is still a possibility because guess what, they didn’t say otherwise.
Guess something as crazy as bringing back mass Resurrect is still a possibility then. ![:smiley:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=5" ":smiley:")
Nah mas res was more fun than Valkyrie by a long shot.
It’s been like 15 months since the change. At some point, it’s just time to let it go. I know it can be disappointing, and frustrating especially with big changes, but it’s just a game. It’s supposed to be fun, not irritating and/or upsetting, especially when we’re talking over a year’s worth of time.
And especially after this much time has passed, I think it’s safe to say it’s probably not ever going to come back.