Mercy Mains | 10 Hard To Swallow Pills šŸ’Š

I see where youā€™re getting at. Prior to this Rework the other team needed to know when did Mercy use her Ult last? Did she use it yet? If not she surely must be saving it for something. BUT I do disagree with the Ult Economy not being as utilized now as it was before, Itā€™s still very much a thing but some characters such as Ana can use their ultimate and gain it back quite quickly which is pretty awesome.

Was the purpose of this post to bring attention?

Thatā€™s fine. Iā€™m merely giving an opinion with regards to ult economy. And indeed, I am very much glad that heroes like Ana are getting more use out of their ults as well. :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:

Yeah, but it was too rewarding, letā€™s be honest.

I would argue, that if Jeff was honest, it was more along the lines of ā€œit was wrong for Mercy to tell the 2nd healer to stop healing, and the team to group up and die, so that she can try and mass resā€

Itā€™s a shooter game. Itā€™s counter intuitive for players to not try and kill each other, and instead to group up and lift hands from the mouse and keyboard to die.
Thatā€™s why they changed it. But I am sure, that you would dismiss that as a ā€œsubjective opinionā€ or something along those lines.

No. I am happy to agree, that there is some truth to what youā€™re saying.

Also, I am happy to add another thing to the mix. You know how they refer to Rein as an anker tank? I would argue, that Mercy was what I would call an anker healer with her whole mass res thing. She had the incredible ability to make people group up, even if she wasnā€™t there.
It was positive for me as a 2nd healer in the sense, that it was easier to see my team and to pull of a good Tranquility.
However, this doesnā€™t change the negative aspects. In many cases, I would be healing alone and I would be left alone vs flankers, because Mercy was hiding.

How would you have tweaked mass res? How would it still do what it does, but also eliminate the ā€œhide & resā€?

She was meta defining and game breaking with invulnerable mass Rez. Point B on two CP OT could last as long as a normal game if both mercies were good enough and none of that is fun.

Mind games are fun? No, ulting with soldier is fun because no matter how quick the target is he can gun them down, itā€™s fun to play against because you hear that voice line and you can do several things to mitigate it. You can run, stay to fight, get behind a tank ect. Thereā€™s interaction between the two parties with one party having the obvious advantage because their using up a resource.

ā€œSupport ults shouldnā€™t be about getting killsā€ fine letā€™s go to a utility ult thatā€™s both fun to play with and against. Reinhardtā€™s earth shater. Whatā€™s fun? Timing your shater so you can hit as many targets as possible, oh wow like mass Rez? No not at all. You use it on opponents and they have means of mitigating itā€™s effect or snuff it completely without just stunning rein, they can put up a shield, protect team mates that got stunned ect.

Letā€™s go to a support, how about Lucy heā€™s got those mind game thingies right. He has the wind up/cast time, has LOS blockers, can only be cast on fellow team mates why is that fun to play with and againstvs mass rez. Because he needs to time it to when his team is alive and in immediate danger at which point theirs a very fast clock ticking where you have to make the most of the ability. Enemies can mitigate its effect by stalling for seconds, focusing a single target, and it emp a direct counter to blank the majority of his ults power. Thereā€™s once again interaction between the enemy team and LĆŗcio.

Mass Rez, isnā€™t fun to play with or against. It was the most boring ult on the most passive and boring healer in the game. Valk attempted to change that but because Rez was still in the kit all of the power went into it because Rez is just that powerful of a utility ability. To bring back mass rez they would once again have to gut mercyā€™s kit for an ability that is neither fun to play and actually unfun to play against due to its undoing nature.

Thatā€™s your opinion. Honestly, I found it balanced, albeit in need of a few tweaks. :wink:

I would, simply because Overwatch isnā€™t just a shooter. There are many elements of this game that arenā€™t traditionally found in shooters. So I wouldnā€™t agree with the statement of ā€œthis doesnā€™t belong in this gameā€ in the world where rolling hamsters, gorilla scientists with tesla cannons, and cybernetic ā€œstreet fightersā€ exist. :blush:

I agree with her being referred to an anker healer, I think thatā€™s a good way to put it. While I do understand how one would see those negative aspects of ā€œhidingā€, Iā€™m not sure if Iā€™m on board with that conceptually. I say this because at the end of the day, Mercy mains still need to hide in order to rez successfully, with the only difference being that itā€™s now every 30 seconds as opposed to one big event. The timing may be different, but the basic mechanics are still very much there. There are many other heroes that hide in order to ult as well, even to this day. So I donā€™t see Mercy as a special case in this instance. I think ā€œHide and Ultingā€ in general is a bad practice that everyone who mains any hero has been responsible for at one time or another, and that includes Mercy mains, so in hindsight, those were very much ā€œif caseā€ scenarios.

Iā€™d rather not this thread be a discussion solely on mass rez, since this is specifically talking about Mercy mains and the common misconceptions, but since youā€™ve also asked how I would solve the ā€œhide and res issueā€, Iā€™ll give my opinion on what I would have done to mitigate it. Note how I say ā€œmitigateā€ here, because no matter what anyone does in this game, ā€œhide and ultingā€ happens no matter what hero you play. Itā€™s not exclusive to Mercy and is a strategy many people use (though not a very good one imo). These changes would have the goal of making it harder for Mercy mains to do when ressing specifically.

In my opinion, there are multiple ways. One way it can be fixed is by simply giving her something similar to the checks her E move res has now, with a few QoL tweaks. A Line of Sight (similar to now), 30% damage reduction instead of invincibility (instead of what she had back then) but cancelled when hit by CC (like now), a small 1.25s cast time (Instead of a 1.75 cast she has currently), and the same AOE sheā€™s had before with perhaps a 5-10m decrease in range (giving her the distance she needs to rez multiple people, but still has to be close enough to the souls for her to be countered.

I believe the issue with Mercyā€™s mass rez back then was both the instant cast and the lack of line of sight. Those two issues, coupled with her lacking any defensive capabilities to focus fire while going for the res, promoted gameplay that was more defensive rather than offensive. I think the devs saw this when they gave her the invincibility on her res, which helped solve the ā€œhidingā€ part. However since it was instant, it didnā€™t address the issue a lot of people had with having to stop it proactively instead of reactively. Thatā€™s where the cast time comes in. Giving people a chance to stop it. To compensate for that, Mercy will have 30% damage reduction, which will keep her vulnerable to being killed by focus fire and burst damage at close range, but still enough to not be completely obliterated by mere poke damage.

Since, you could already cancel her rez now with a stun or other CC, I think this would be a fair compromise. I think Mercy should have the ability to cancel her ult as well to give them a chance to escape in an emergency. Rebuilding that ult again and risk staggering would be the cost of the possibility of running away alive, and it would be a great way to punish bad Mercy players who try to go for ballsy resses, only to realize that it was a mistake, cancel it, try to run, and getting killed - this wasted time would act as a stagger, kind of similar to how D.vaā€™s demech mechanic burns respawn time when they decide to overextend.

LoS is self-explanatory. She wonā€™t be able to rez through walls, floors or ceilings etc. which will force her to be more engaged in the fight, and a middle ground between a smaller AOE range than what she had previously and a larger range than she has now would also be something I think would help curb this behavior, to compensate for more risk associated with bringing back more souls.

Thereā€™s many other suggestions from other people as well that have something similar to this concept (Titaniumā€™s kit is another popular solution) or something like giving her res charges that she would need to earn through healing / dmg boosting etc. that are exclusively used only when she ults. I make similar suggestions in my other thread here as well:

All in all, I think it would be beneficial to have something that would encourage mercy players to engage in the battle rather than sit idly and wait for the ult. Those are just some of my thoughts on the many ways that Mass res could have been tweaked to prevent ā€œhide nā€™ resā€ behavior while still making her impactful, fun, and engaging to play. :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:

Not really. She couldnā€™t even break past D-tier in pro tournaments and when invulnerability was added, correct me if Iā€™m wrong, but the meta was Dive. Mercy has never been a ideal pick for dive until her rework which made her OP. People always opted to go Zen and Lucio instead.

Whatā€™s wrong with the match lasting normal match lengths? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I respect your opinion but will have to disagree. Mind games are fun. Challenging yourself and in return, get rewarded a powerful ultimate is fun.

This is only ā€œfunā€ for the players facing the ultimates. Ultimates arenā€™t supposed to be fun to play againstā€¦

Same for mass Res. :slight_smile:

I disagree again. It is fun to pull of a clutch Resurrect then fly around everywhere, dodging attacks. :blush:

Mass Res can be mitigated too. Not everything is about having the chance to completely stop it before it happens. :confused:

Hereā€™s Mercyā€™s thought process when ressing:


Quoted from Titanium:


Remember when the cast time was placed on Resurrect and how a lot of players responded with ā€œNow Mercy mains will have to think before using Resurrectā€?

Do you also remember that this is how I introduced this section the past two times I made this thread? Iā€™m bringing this up again because I thoroughly enjoy irony.

Anyway, there is a very clear difference between the complexity of using Resurrect now, and the complexity of using Resurrect prior to the rework. Stemming from that difference in complexity, there is a big difference in the thought processes for the two abilitiesā€¦ namely that ult-rez had one, and E-rez doesnā€™t.

Before delving into the thought processes, Iā€™ll go over the differences in complexity.

Currently, Resurrect has a restrictive numerical value, allowing for only six possible combinations of Resurrect targets:

  • Solo-rezzing allies 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. 5 combinations.
  • Not using Resurrect. 1 combination.

Ult-rez, on the other hand, had far more possible combinations of Resurrect targets:

  • Solo-rezzing allies 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. 5 combinations.
  • Duo-rezzing allies 1 through 5. 10 combinations (5 choose 2, for you math freaks out there).
  • Trio-rezzing allies 1 through 5. 10 combinations.
  • Mass-rezzing (four-man) allies 1 through 5. 5 combinations.
  • Team-rezzing all allies. 1 combination.
  • Not using Resurrect. 1 combination.

That is thirty-two possible combinations of Resurrect from Mercy 1.x, making it more than five times as complex as the current iteration of Resurrect, and thatā€™s from a numerical perspective alone.

Resurrect currently has a 5 meter radius, a 1.75 second cast time, and a 75% movement speed reduction, narrowing the parameters in which it can be safely used. It is less flexible due to safety concerns.

Resurrect used to have a 15 meter radius, no cast time, and post-rez invulnerability, allowing it to be used in a variety of situations. It was very flexible.

Resurrect currently is not an ultimate ability. It is on a 30 second cooldown, making its availability predictable and reliable. On top of this, its limited power range does not allow it to contest other ultimates.

Resurrect used to be an ultimate ability. It had no guarantee as to when it would be available again, making it more difficult to gauge when it could next be used. It was not only an ultimate, but a support ultimate, rendering it a scarce resource. It was capable of matching the power of other ultimates, and its expense counted as an ultimate expense.

As a result of lower numerical complexity, usage inflexibility, downtime predictability, and a basic-ability status, E-Resurrect also has a consistent optimal use scenario. That optimal time of use is always to reverse the first pick prior to a teamfight. This is the case for several reasonsā€¦

First, there is safety. With Resurrectā€™s incapacitation upon cast, it is clear that Mercy could use all the help and protection she can get while casting; she already has the biggest target in the game on her head. The more living allies nearby to protect the Mercy in the first place, the more likely it is that using Resurrect will result in a successful Resurrection and a living Mercy. Using the ability when there are only two allies to protect the Mercy is typically suicide.

Second, the realistic impact of Resurrect is greater the earlier it is used. Its numerical value remains the same (one person), but that numerical value means much more when used earlier in the fight rather than later. This is because of how teamfights typically snowball.

Both teams start out facing each other at a dividing point in the map. Six players on each side. One team gets a pick (or a first kill that grants an advantage and a prompt to engage), and then pushes into the opposing team. The team of five players is at a one-man disadvantage, a weakness their enemies capitalize on with their engagement. The team of five loses another player, dropping them down to four. Then they lose another. Somewhere in there, they may have gotten a kill, bringing to fight to a 3v5, but it doesnā€™t matter. The team that got the first pick has too much momentum and too great of a numbers advantage for the losing team to fight back with any success. The team of now three players crumbles, and the last three living players are killed off.

What point in that fight would be the best time to use Resurrect?

Using Resurrect when itā€™s a 3v5 or worse would probably mean not being able to get Resurrect off in the first placeā€¦ but letā€™s cast that aside (no pun intended) and say that the player somehow manages it anyway. Okay, great! You got that ally back, and chances are that another ally is in critical condition from the damage they sustained over the past 1.75 seconds of you not healing them. That is, assuming they didnā€™t just die in that time.

But you know what? Letā€™s ignore that second flaw too. Letā€™s suppose that miraculously, Mercy pulled off the Resurrection and every other ally that was still alive was left unscathed during that 1.75 second cast timeā€¦ Itā€™s still a 4v5. Mercyā€™s team is still at a huge disadvantage.

Okay, letā€™s try using Resurrect earlierā€¦ How about on the first pick?

When trying to revive that first dead ally, four other teammates are there to cover for the Mercy; she has a good chance of getting Resurrect off, so thatā€™s a good start.

What about Mercyā€™s other allies? Well, the enemy doesnā€™t have much momentum yet and there are four allies to spread damage among rather than only two, greatly reducing the chance of more allied deaths or even the chance of them dropping to critical condition. Both flaws presented in the late-fight Resurrection are heavily mitigated when using the ability earlier.

Not only that, but a successful Resurrection means the fight is back to a 6v6; the enemy no longer has the numbers advantage, and has likely backed off because of that. Teams typically want to engage with an advantage.

It is easier to stop a snowball before it starts than it is to try to stop it once it is rolling. Rather than using Resurrect to little or no effect later in the fight, it is best to prevent the scales from tipping in the enemyā€™s favor in the first place. Therefore, using Resurrect as early into the fight as possible is always the best option.

Resurrect during Mercyā€™s 1.x versions, however, was a different story. It had greater numerical complexity, it was more flexible in how it was used because it had no activation safety restrictions, its next use was unpredictable, and it was contending with other ultimates. As a result, it never had a consistent optimal execution. Its best-case scenario varied from fight to fight.

For example, if the Mercy waits to use Resurrect on four or more players every time, sheā€™s reviving her team into an uphill battle every time; the enemy has the momentum, the positioning advantage, and the first shot. Furthermore, waiting to revive a bunch of players at once runs the risk of staggered deaths, risking a numbers disadvantage on top of those other disadvantages.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, using Resurrect to revive 1-2 players every time ran the risk of blowing Resurrect without depleting enemy ultimates first. Considering that ā€œHelden sterben nicht!ā€ was practically a green light for the enemy team to start activating ultimates, using Resurrect early in the fight against a loaded team without a plan B wasnā€™t really a good idea.

How was the best execution of the old Resurrect determined? That is where the difference in thought process between the two ability versions begins. The optimal time of use is predetermined for the current Resurrect, while the optimal use of the old Resurrect needed to be discovered on the fly for each individual scenario.

As for how the best execution of old Resurrect was determinedā€¦ It depended upon a lot of variables. For starters, here are some variables and questions considered before the engagement begins:

  • Living allies prior to the teamfight. Are we a full team, or are some allies dead/walking back from spawn?
  • Living enemies prior to the teamfight. Does this put us at a numbers advantage/disadvantage? Is it possible that additional enemies will join the fight late?
  • Ultimates held by present allies. Are there any allies I should prioritize when it comes time to Resurrect because of their ultimates?
  • Ultimates held by present enemies. How many ultimates does the enemy team have at the ready? Does this put us at an advantage/disadvantage in primed ultimates? Are there any ultimates I should be weary of in particular?
  • Missing enemies. Are there any enemies I cannot see/have not accounted for? Are they flanking? Where might they attack from? Am I their target?
  • Allied positions. When things get hot, who can I fly to for safety? Will I still be able to heal the frontline from there, or will healing the tanks require another reposition?
  • Mercyā€™s position. How can I place myself in a way that still allows me to support the team, but minimizes the enemyā€™s ability to shoot at me? If I am directly attacked, could a reach a position that gives me an advantage in that fight? Are there nearby healthpacks that I could take advantage of?
  • Engagement patterns. Will the enemy get a pick and then engage, or will they fly through that choke point, ultimates blazing? If we are the team initiating, which pattern will we follow?

During the engagement, here are some of the variables the player might consider in the heat of battle:

  • Midfight numbers. Are we at an advantage/disadvantage in this category? Will Resurrect give us a numbers advantage? Is Resurrect even necessary to win the fight?
  • Enemy activity. How aggressive are they playing? Are they slowly gaining an upper hand, or has all hell broken loose? How aggressive is each one playing? Do the aggressive ones have their ultimates ready? Are they prepared for me to use Resurrect, or are they too blinded by their tunnel vision to realize Iā€™m still here?
  • Death locations. Are my allies close enough to one another to be revived in a single use of Resurrect? Is there a specific position I should attempt to reach to revive them all? Would reviving a particular ally provide our team with an advantage due to their location in relation to the enemy?
  • Midfight ultimates. What ultimates are active? What ultimates do we still have? What ultimates does the enemy still have? How can I bait out those ultimates? What ultimates do our dead allies have? Are they in a position to use them?
  • Respawn timers. Will more allies die before that first ally respawns? Should I revive that first ally now, or should I hold onto resurrect until more allies are down?
  • Resurrect priorities. If I am forced to choose between reviving one ally or the other, which do I choose, based upon their hero, skill, and ultimate status?
  • Enemy positions. Where is each living enemy? Are any flanking around in an attempt to kill me? Am I in the sights of any enemies?
  • Safety/practicality limits. Is it too dangerous for me to have a presence in the fight anymore? Would healing my team even be useful at this point? Is it time for me to pull back and supplement healing with pistol fire?
  • Post-rez outcome. Given all of the above variables, what are the chances that my team will win the fight after I resurrect them? If the chances are not in our favor, how can I tip them in our favor? Who should I try to finish off with my pistol while taking advantage of the invulnerability frames? If the post-rez fight will not be in our favor, should I bother using Resurrect at all?

There was a mind game that centralized around defining the best way to use Resurrect. It was a mental puzzle in a race against time. The mind game brought an additional layer of player engagement to a mechanically basic hero.


I respect your opinion but will have to disagree. It is fun to play against and counter easily and is fun to use because of all the mind games that come with it that further engages the player. :blush:

I disagree here as well.

Valkyrie would still be a bore to use as long as chain heals, pseudo immortal self heals and 3d flight existed. Most donā€™t find it fun to have an ultimate that does everything for you. :blush:

Mass Res was fun to play against and wasnā€™t unfun to play against because of all the counterplay options you can use against it. :blush:

And even then, Iā€™m still curious as to why ultimates are supposed to be fun against, not that mass Res doesnā€™t even meet that criteria.


I mean, most of this is subjective which I can understand but your reasoning is pretty badā€¦ No offence. :blush:


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:shaved_ice::chocolate_bar:

Spreading positivity and ice cream, one Mercy at a time.
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The reason ults are supposed to be both fun and fun to play against is because this is a game where both sides have the ability to interact with eachother. My arguement isnā€™t about balance itā€™s about fun.

A new hero could potentially have an ability where he channels for 3 seconds after which anywhere on the map he instantly deals 1000 damage to every single enemy teammate. The rest of his kit might be trash and underpowered but he could wipe the enemy team once or twice a game. This kit is badly designed not because itā€™s over powered but because there is little to no counterplay and interaction between the two parties and while fun to get instant value just by pressing your ult it doesnā€™t feel good to just go back to playing your underpowered kit after using the only powerful tool in your tool box.

The good news: the devs havenā€™t caved to the requests to bring back mass rez and havenā€™t given any inclination that they intend to, in fact they stated point blank there wonā€™t be a revert so at least we wonā€™t regress if thereā€™s movement it will be forward.

The bad news: the devs have failed to make mercy engaging and due to the power of Rez have left mercy in a must pick status up until the final nail in the coffin, the move back to 50hps. Sheā€™s in a worse spot than sheā€™s been in for a while and maintains the avoidance playstyle where sheā€™d prefer not seeing any enemies at all if she could help it.

Hope for the future: going forward I hope the devs continue to not bend to the vocal minority that wants mass Rez back but instead introduces a new playstyle that is interactive rather than reactive/passive.

Then why is it used as a point to revert/change her ?

Except there are no issues besides that personally they donā€™t enjoy the hero anymore ,which the best solution to it is really to just play something else.

Thatā€™s just a way to refer to how many and how frequent mercy threads are ,I donā€™t think they mean that itā€™s reportable spam.

You fully well know that wasnā€™t the only reason they reworked her ,even jeff stated that another major point was that they didnā€™t like how a main healer stops healing and goes hiding somewhere ,stop acting as if thatā€™s the only point.

But anyways ,what Iā€™d do if I didnā€™t enjoy a hero anymore is simply to stop playing them ,Iā€™ve touched genji for approximately 5 hours in the last month or more ,why ? because I donā€™t like playing him anymore despite having over 100 hours on him ,it really is that simple. (Yes, I know he wasnā€™t drastically reworked ,but in the end itā€™s the same case of not enjoying a hero anymore.)

REALLY ? A VOICELINE revert ? youā€™re really grasping at straws at this point.

Except these are completely different situationsā€¦

Itā€™s not a revert just because that one number is back to what it was ,she now has rez on E and a different ultimate, how can you compare ?

Thatā€™s about as close as youā€™ll get ,and itā€™s not even close to what youā€™re asking for.

Give it up ,theyā€™re never going to revert any hero rework ,and if they ever do they sure as hell wouldnā€™t start with something as controversial as mercy

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In this case, when an ultimate is successfully pulled of, the oppositionā€™s fun is irrelevant. Mercy pulled of the Res. Itā€™s an ultimate. You shouldnā€™t be happy about hearing ultimates getting used from the enemy team.

Which doesnā€™t really make sense since youā€™re claiming that ultimates should be easy to flop so the opposition can have funā€¦ :confused:

No, itā€™s literally because having the ability to one-shot the entire hero roster is objectively overpowered. Not because thereā€™s no counterplay. Thatā€™s like saying having the ability to instantly kill players in an area is not overpowered because it has counterplay and has interactions between the two parties. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

If you think the only way of having fun is for Mercy to have an overpowered ability, I donā€™t know what to say to you. And again, this is assuming that mass Res is OP which, not surprisingly, it wasnā€™t. :confused:

They reverted her heals and voice lines, they added 2 new heroes that counter it and they have yet to say, ā€œmass res wonā€™t returnā€.

Agreed.

Boi, donā€™t I love this argument. Explain how weā€™re the vocal minority and youā€™re the majority please. :blush:


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:shaved_ice::chocolate_bar:

Spreading positivity and ice cream, one Mercy at a time.

Thanks for offering your opinion! I respect your thoughts, but Iā€™m sorry, Iā€™m going to have to disagree with you there. I believe that based on the reverts to mercy in the past, and the current partial revert to Mercy now, that there is still a very real possibility to bring back mass res in some shape or form. I will never give up on voicing my opinion about it, and I and many others are entitled to do so, just as you are entitled to believe that it will never come back.

But hey! Thanks for sharing your views on it, weā€™re going to have to just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Meanwhile, letā€™s keep it classy and positive. This is a discussion about the common misconceptions of Mercy mains, this is not a discussion to belittle and insult others whoā€™s views differ from your own. Thanks for your cooperation! :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:

You continue to mix up fun with balance. A hero could definitely be able to one shot the rest of the cast with an ultimate as long as the rest of his kit was devoid of power. He would be balanced but not fun. Why? Because thereā€™s zero interaction between you and the character because it feels like cheating that they get a team kill just because they chose a character thatā€™s normally pretty weak but has a single tool in their kit thatā€™s incredibly powerful.

Thatā€™s what mercy was with mass rez. She was a awefully designed character that had lower than average power in the rest of her kit because a single ability robbed the rest of her kit of its potential power.

You keep on arguing mercy was UP when she had mass rez and thatā€™s because when she had it all of the power of her kit was focused on that one ultmate. She was still a must pick in tourney play even though she offered little to the team besides rez which was enough. Itā€™s that broken of a utility ability.

I get that weā€™re not going to agree on this and that in a way by propping up these types of threads Iā€™m part of the problem. So maybe these threads will bring blizzards attention back to mercy, but changing one ability isnā€™t going to make mercy fun again. She needs a fundamental rework with a change of play style from passive to active and she needs rez gutted not the rest of her kit.

Man I love pills. Pills either are drugs or they make you feel better. Personally, the hard to swallow ones are the best kind of pills.

That is still overpoweredā€¦ And is not fun at all. All your power being placed in one ability means that you can only have fun every time you use said ability. After that, you have to deal with your garbage kit. For the enemy team, when you use said one shot ability, it is not going to be fun to deal with because thereā€™s no counterplay and it instantly one shots you.

Nowhere near balanced. :slight_smile:

He wonā€™t be fun because all his power is compressed into one ability and because of this, thereā€™s no power left for the rest of his kit. What youā€™re saying is not why people have funā€¦

I respect your opinion but will have to disagree. Mercy was a fantastically designed hero. :slight_smile:

Nope. Her heals were fine and her GA was fine. Nothing about her kit was, ā€œOhh!! Mass Res toook all my powerā€. :>

Nope. Itā€™s because she fit in no meta before and because Ana was the better pick.

Objectively false. She couldnā€™t even break past D-tier in pro play and was usually F-Tier.

In pro tournaments, she was only used to pocket a Pharah. She wasnā€™t picked because of Res but rather her consistent heals for long-ranged DPS. :slight_smile:

I donā€™t mind agreeing to disagreeing and I donā€™t think youā€™re a problem. :blush: Having discussions is perfectly normal.

Indeed. I want either a full rework involving mass Res (Mass Res with tweaks, new kit and new e ability) or a full rework involving the deletion of Res. :slight_smile:

Agreed!


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:shaved_ice::chocolate_bar:

Spreading positivity and ice cream, one Mercy at a time.
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Fitting , isnā€™t it?,

To be completely honest, I feel like several of these were either made or, or altered from what the community thinks about Mercy mains and are inflammatory in nature. Iā€™ve been part of the community for some time, reading a lot of whatā€™s posted, and Iā€™ve yet to see a real post relating to 3, 4, 5, 7, 9.

Number 1 feels completely dishonest. Many of us believe that Mass Rez was an op ability. I see post after post after post after post from Mercy Mains to bring Mass Rez back. It goes without saying then, that an overwhelming amount of Mercy mains want her to have that OP ultimate again. You say you want Mercy to feel rewarding, but the rest of the community wants their heroes to feel rewarding too. Thereā€™s nothing less rewarding than pulling a good 5/6 team kill just for it all to be erased by one ultimate. We can argue the logistics all day, but that one ability made her a must pick. Blizz agreed. It is gone, and itā€™s not coming back.

Number 10. Going out of order to keep on the same topic. Yes, there have been reverts to Mercyā€™s kit, but none to do with Mass Rez. Every single ā€œrevert Mercyā€ post I see specifically gets into Mass Rez as a prime topic. Rez is so powerfuly they had to dumb it down multiple times, not just by increasing the CD time, but removing the extra Rez you used to get with Valkyrie, and increasing the casting time. So no, in that sense, theyā€™re never going to ā€œRevert Mercyā€ back to having mass rez.

Number 2 is a statement we use when we see yet another post about mass Rez. Mercy mains want it back, but itā€™s never coming back, so Mercy mains will never be happy.

Number 6 is just true.

And thatā€™s a behavior you exhibit. Just took a look at your profile. Go to your activity and type in the word ā€œMercyā€, you will see 33 results, and thatā€™s just for the stuff that loaded, and not just for replies to this post. I scrolled down, you do spam a lot of Mercy topics. I checked out the topics that you are the OP for, and you have posted 17 topics related to Mercy.

Number 8 was definitely true earlier on in the game. When faced with the fact that Mass Rez was never going to return, it forced a lot of Mercy Mains to finally give it up and be more useful in other ways to their team.

But this is one thing I want to draw attention to:

That is a lie.
You donā€™t ā€œmainā€ someone you would also consider a ā€œniche pickā€.

Mercyā€™s pickrate pre-rework also supports Xavyā€™s claim though. :sweat_smile:


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:shaved_ice::chocolate_bar:

Spreading positivity and ice cream, one Mercy at a time.
3 Likes

Thought you were going to make toward Mercy mains, not people complaining about them.

You are entitled to your opinion. Every pill was taken from various comments in the forums that were said about Mercy mains in one way or another. Iā€™ve merely reworded some of them a bit as to not risk directly calling those individuals out and to keep their identity anonymous. Searching anything similar to any of these points will bring up various results of the comments said about Mercy mains.

Going to have to stop you right there, since you are giving an opinion that is to be assumed as fact. Where in that OP do I mention mass res? Letā€™s not put words in my mouth, please. Thanks!

Regardless, what you think about mass rez or how certain numbers ā€œfeelā€ is your opinion. You may think itā€™s OP, and you may not like it. That is fine, because it is your own opinion. And just like your opinion, other people are entitled to think that it isnā€™t OP and that they love the ability. And that is also fine, because that is also their opinion. So whatever both sides think about it is subjective.

Further, I would advise that you not generalize Mercy mains, as it weakens your arguments greatly. Not all Mercy mains want mass res, and not all Mercy mains want a revert - period. I feel that this is part of why this thread exists, because people tend to have a natural tendency to discriminate groups of people under one particular stereotype, and is unfortunately, a completely false, and narrow way of thinking in terms of the player-base. So as a suggestion, letā€™s use ā€œsomeā€ Mercy mains, not the unanimous ā€œMercy mains do / think _____ā€ without the specification.

Side note for clarification sake: If you think that Mass res wonā€™t return, then hey! You are completely entitled to your opinion, and weā€™ll just have to agree to disagree. Saying that it was ā€œOPā€ however, is objectively false. From a statistical standpoint, Mercy with mass res was never made ā€œOP.ā€ That is a subjective misconception. The truth is, she was mostly an F-tier hero and niche, and performed so poorly that they had to buff her in order to make her viable. This can be proven with actual facts and data taken before the rework itself, and not just rumors and opinions on what we think about mass res with no proof. :blush:

https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2016-08-11-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-don-t-panic

Other sources prove this to be true as well:

https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2016-08-25-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-c-u-lan

https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2017-01-17-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-a-hint-of-pharah

http://www.omnicmeta.com/2017/02/pc-competitive-ladder-season-3-report.html

http://www.omnicmeta.com/2017/06/korea-vs-americas-hero-meta-in-season-5.html?m=1

I notice that I constantly have to say this, so I think itā€™s becoming clear that this too is a common misconception that people arenā€™t aware of, so from now on, Iā€™ll perhaps just reference this quote in the future as to not need to constantly repeat myself about it. :slight_smile:

See above, since you are basically saying the same thing as your previous point. Unfortunately, repeating your opinion stillā€¦ doesnā€™t magically make it fact. :smirk:

Who is ā€œweā€? I believe that is the problem here. This isnā€™t a ā€œwe vs themā€ discussion. This is being made aware of the common misconceptions about Mercy mains, and understanding them. Once again, you are bringing mass res into a topic that never mentioned it, and once again you are weakening your points with repeating yourself. The OP never mentioned mass rez, so pleaseā€¦ Letā€™s stay on topic, and see above. :blush:

And here comes the personal attacks! Not a smart move there in proving your caseā€¦ But carry on.

Oh Iā€™m sorry, Iā€™m going to have to disagree with you on that. You see, posting Mercy topics in itself isnā€™t automatically spam. And the fact that they still exist proves it. If you actually read on the creation dates of each topic, you would see that said threads are usually made within weeks of each other, if not months. And all the topics are completely unique from each other. A detail you conveniently left out. Talking about a hero is a vague enough discussion that it doesnā€™t qualify as ā€œspamming the forumsā€, no matter how much you may want it to be so.

So sorry! As much as you may dislike it, the facts remain. Posting Mercy topics in and of itself is still completely within the forum guidelines, and saying ā€œAll these threads are about Mercy so theyā€™re spamā€ has been proven to be completely false. But I do appreciate you for having such a passionate interest in me to the point of tracking all of my posts. Itā€™s actually quite flattering. And I intend to make many more threads about my favorite hero in the future. :heart:

Iā€™m sorry, but that is your opinion, not backed by fact. Do you have the statistics that show every Mercy mains who ā€œgave upā€ as well as documented records of each of them that explain in detail ā€œwhyā€ they did? Saying that it was due to them ā€œfacing the fact that mass rez wonā€™t returnā€, is your own ideology. Letā€™s keep it at that and not make assumptions on the motives behind an entire playerbase, or things that were never confirmed. Once again, see above on my first reply to you about mass rez. I donā€™t feel that it is necessary to keep repeating myself here about it at this pointā€¦ But thanks for projecting your opinions on the matter! Weā€™ll just have to agree to disagree on it and move on. :blush:

Is it? I guess people like symmetra and torbjorn mains, didnā€™t exist before their reworks then. You doā€¦ realize that you can main a niche hero right? :blush:

I think we have enough threads calling out Mercy mains in general. I figured itā€™s time to we get something different. :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:

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Thanks for sharing your opinions! Your response is highly valued in this discussion. Unfortunately, you seem to be repeating yourself there once more with projecting your opinions about mass res, so I believe we have nothing else constructive to discuss in this conversation. So! Instead of taking part in this back and fourth with you and your own beliefs, I will sadly but humbly put an end to this exchange, while leaving you one last time with my previous post that has already been addressed to you multiple times.

In conclusion, I think itā€™s been made clear that you donā€™t like mass rez and that I do. Weā€™re going to have to just leave our opinions at that and agree to disagree. Thanks for sharing your opinions though Redomotive! I wish you well in your endeavors, and our talks have been mostā€¦ Riveting! :blush:

Cheers!


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart: