Mercy is falling once again


#139

He’s still correct. :man_shrugging: Besides, there’s really no indication of her stats jumping back up again since the most recent jump in pickrate was mainly because of Pharah.


The Mercy Ice Cream Movement :shaved_ice::chocolate_bar:


#140

yeah what’s up. there’s this whole mercy bad thing and now widow’s hit reg is broken!?


#141

Predicting a trend from 3 days of data on a very small sample size is pretty dangerous. A few hardcore GM Mercy mains may have taken a few days off. The weekly averages and then the monthly will equalize with the daily if that’s where this is heading, but I doubt it.

The rest of this season’s data will be trash too because we’re under 7 days in the season, so everyone can stop playing and still won’t decay.


#142

Actually, it’s 22 days and perhaps more if you count the days before the spike in pickrate.


The Mercy Ice Cream Movement :shaved_ice::chocolate_bar:


#143

In which case the weekly then monthly will drop to less than 1%, as I said. We’ll have to wait until next season, but it should happen if that spike was just a fluke. I don’t follow changes enough to know if anything is changing again soon with the new season, or if that was patch related spike then return to normalcy.


#144

I don’t mind waiting but I doubt her stats will change significantly. Mercy is definitely underpowered as of now. I mean, the only comps she works well in is PharMercy and Dive and even then, the only reason she was good in dive was because she was OP. Now, off-healers are better.


The Mercy Ice Cream Movement :shaved_ice::chocolate_bar:


#145

It’s pretty sad that they nerfed Mercy. She might have been a bit too strong but they completely overnerfed her. I don’t play her but I’ve never had the feeling that the hero feels unfair or unfun to play against, in my opinion her design is great and it’s a shame that she got nerfed. I’d much rather play against a Mercy which is a bit too strong than playing against this Doomfist and Brigitte bullshi*t.


#146

Yes it has and yes there was. She was busted when she had invulnerability while mass rezzing. Did you forget about that incarnation of Mercy?

Rez is in no way healthy for the game. While it being not only a counter-intuitive ability, but it also promotes sloppy play. As in people don’t value their lives as much because they know their Mercy has rez in her pocket. No one likes playing with it nor against it. Take rez out of the game and people will value their lives much more and start playing much better.

Rez never belonged in this game.

It never worked dude. As I said, one incarnation was a throw pick and the other was busted. The throw pick incarnation of mass rez Mercy was when she didn’t have invulnerability on mass rez and she would die just to save 5 of her teammates IF she even got that many. Rezzing the team wouldn’t even matter because Mercy died while doing so, making the fight a 5v6 and her team would just get wiped again.

The busted incarnation of mass rez Mercy was when she had invulnerability when she mass rezzed and was unkillable for like 2 seconds.

Who cares about voicelines and sprays? They can keep that in the game and keep Resurrect apart of who Mercy is and her lore. Just remove rez from the actual game. They don’t have to delete every little cosmetic just to delete rez from her kit.


#147

It’s settled then, we should delete her.


#150

doomfist has a lot but 1. nowhere near as many as reins known ones and old ones, who knows how many ones arent known 2. nowhere near as impactful as reins 3. doomfists bugs actually remain fixed when they get fixed and isnt constantly getting new ones every single patch.

Dva only had one really bad bug and it was fixed easily.


#151

Nope.

That version of Mercy was D-tier.

Do I need to drop the quote from Jeff Kaplan himself in which he says that Ana was the most-played hero in the top 33% of players?

Restating a position that has already been shot down without providing any additional reinforcement for that position doesn’t bring said dead position back into play.

By… punishing sloppy play?

Spamming Q 5 times to take an objective seems quite sloppy to me, and Resurrect was one of the only counters to that strategy.

And the teams that play with this mentality lost more often than not.

Why?

Expending a limited and scarce resource just for the hell of it when an infinite resource (healing) is sufficient is a great way to immediately get your rear handed to you.

“Everyone jump on the point and die.”
Team dies and baits no ultimates from the enemy.
Mercy Resurrects the team.
The enemy pops the two ultimates they just charged from killing 5 players, wiping the freshly-revived team as soon as they are vulnerable.

That’s what happens when you look to expend a resource just for the hell of it. The game punished this kind of play.

Your argument is like saying that “It’s counter-intuitive for Pharah players to kill themselves with Rocket Barrage, therefore Rocket Barrage should be removed”.

Objectively false.

And ultimate spam will continue to get worse.

And why might that be?

And again, this version of Mercy never broke D-tier.

You have a laughable definition of “busted”.

The playerbase.

At which point, all of those voicelines, sprays, and merchandise becomes meaningless.

Which is a middle-finger to the playerbase.


#152

Uh no. She was absolutely busted. I don’t know if you were around during this time but this claim makes me think so. I even very vividly remember being in multiple pro streamers’ stream during that time and them saying how invulnerability on mass rez Mercy was busted. If you didn’t kill her in a half-second while she GA’d to the point, well, there went your chance to kill her because she’d have invulnerability when she’d cast rez. That is quite busted.

Nothing has been shot down. You even agreed with the statement.

So rez promotes sloppy play to punish sloppy play. Do you know how terrible for the game that sounds?

“Spamming Q”.

I think you mean coordinating ults and strategically taking the objective. Play better, have better positioning and you won’t get team wiped every single fight. I know it’s easy to just say using 5 ults is sloppy to make your entire argument sound better but let’s keep it realistic here.

How on Earth does this make sense? You think the player who knows their Mercy has a revive mechanic waiting for them will play better and value their life more than the player who has a Mercy with no rez? 99% sure they won’t.

So this a typical response and you’re just blaming the team because they didn’t have magical powers and bait ults. Maybe the enemy team was just better and knew not to use ults because the enemy team’s Mercy had a rez. They were just mechanically better and fragged your team without needing ults.

It didn’t when Mercy had invulnerability on mass rez. She got to to play her counter-intuitive hide n seek game and go in and rez and pretty much be impossible to kill before rezzing.

This absolutely makes 0 sense. :neutral_face:

and let’s not sit here and act like a ton of other players don’t share those sentiments.

This game is built on ults, are you new to that information? You also act like defensive ults don’t exist in the game already.

How is it meaningless if it’s still apart of her lore? It doesn’t have to be in-game for it to be meaningful.


#153

“No one likes playing with it nor against it” is objectively false. What you provided is just pros saying they dislike Mass Res and by extension, Mercy.


𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓜𝓮𝓻𝓬𝔂 𝓘𝓬𝓮 𝓒𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓶 𝓜𝓸𝓿𝓮𝓶𝓮𝓷𝓽 :shaved_ice::chocolate_bar:


#154

Yeah.

Pros dislike Mercy because of rez, which is what we’re talking about. There’s nothing objectively false about it. One guy even said it’s not fun to play with or against, and pro players have a large following so it’s reasonable to assume a lot people feel the same way they do.


#155

I’m sorry but this:

is not the same as you just saying pros don’t like Res. Claiming that no one likes playing with it or against it is objectively false. There’s really no way to go around it unless you admit that you made a mistake and you were in fact talking about pros.

That is argumentum ad verecundiam and an example of the bandwagon fallacy. Even if people mindlessly agree with pros because they are pros, said pros opinions are not any more valuable than the opinion of a regular player.


𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓜𝓮𝓻𝓬𝔂 𝓘𝓬𝓮 𝓒𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓶 𝓜𝓸𝓿𝓮𝓶𝓮𝓷𝓽 :shaved_ice::chocolate_bar:


#156

Lmao Im not surprised.

Who thought she would be fine if she consequently got nerfed 14 times? Her girlfriend Pharah only helped just a bit thanks to her buff, but that only lasts long as it did since people needed time to play against new Pharah.


#157

#158

yea yea ive seen the vid. still not as many as rein.


#159

Yes.

This is why someone who was considered to be a troll-pick by a large portion of the community at the time (Ana) had a higher pickrate than Mercy in the top 33% of players.

"But looking at Competitive only… here are the top 6 picked heroes: Mercy (by a long shot), 76, D.Va, Lucio, Ana and Genji. Interestingly, number 7 is Reinhardt. Next tank after that is… Wi… no Roadhog. So in the past month in Comp, that’s what you’ve been actually playing.

But let’s talk about the elite players… maybe the top 3rd of all MMR. Their top picked hero over the past month was…. Ana. Yes, Ana."

- Jeff Kaplan

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757706588?page=2#post-24

Surely, if Mercy were overpowered, she would have been abused to hell and back in the top ranks and the pro-scene, right? And… she wasn’t. Her high-tier pickrate fell off to a third of her overall pickrate the higher your looked. She was hardly seen in pro play, and when she was, it was to pocket a Pharah.

Quite simply, Mercy was not busted.

She was D-tier.

I was.

Nah. They just didn’t like it because it countered their “sick plays” that consisted of pressing Q without thinking about the bigger picture.

Very few of those streamers (none of them, to my knowledge) actually thought that Mercy was OP; you could probably find clips of those same people today who have admitted that the older versions weren’t nearly as bad as they had led their viewers to believe.

Except for that fact that that’s 2.25 seconds for your team to reposition and line up another wipe; you now have the first shot and the positioning advantages.

…Unless of course you forgot Mercy existed and decided to blow all of your resources without killing the highest-priority target in the game. In that case, you deserve to have your rear handed to you.

And this tells me that you didn’t even read the post.

Did you think to read anything past that colon?

It undermines your entire position.

No, I never agreed with your assertion that Resurrect was counter-intuitive. I agreed with your assertion that there is no debating whether it is or it isn’t because it’s crystal clear which is the case:

Shot down by this:

If you need 3+ ultimates to take an objective, and you can’t even be bothered to take out the highest-priority target in the game, then your team has no strategy; you are just using an excess of ultimates as a crutch to compensate for your incompetence.

Except ultimate spam is exactly what promotes this kind of gameplay.

If you the enemy team is better than your team and you aren’t getting anywhere through normal pushes, the solution is to wait until all 6 ultimates are loaded and unload them all at once, because there’s pretty much no way you’re going to do so little with those ultimates that the fight doesn’t become a cakewalk for your team.

Unless Ressurrect is in the equation.

Resurrect literally was the enforcer of “git gud” in this situation. It forced the enemy team to actually have some strategy and competence to beat a better team, rather than just saving ultimates and blowing them all at once. Resurrect is exactly what forced players to:

Okay, so you’re openly admitting that it’s okay to spam “I win” buttons over and over to win a teamfight, but as soon as a support has the opportunity to reverse that with an ability of their own, it’s problematic?

I think you’re the one who needs to be more realistic here.

You might notice that Resurrect took the spot of an ultimate. Resurrect wasn’t a free bonus; it was one of the team’s ultimates.

So, like all other ultimates, you want to use the ability wisely. Blowing it just for the hell of it is only going to backfire.

So yes, a team of semi-competent players would value their lives just as much with or without a Mercy on their team.

I’m explaining why a strategy doesn’t work, since apparently I have to for you. If you actually took a look at the outcome, you would see that the Mercy was equally at fault for that misplay.

“Everyone jump on the point and die.”

There it is. Hoping that a 5v6 without a main healer will do anything but feed the enemy team ultimate charge.

Because it was a 5v6.

You are literally outlining the same flaws in this strategy that I am.

Hell, the enemy team could have been worse than Mercy’s team in terms of mechanics, and they would still come out on top.

Again, you are outlining why this strategy doesn’t work, which is suicidal to your own position.

Ding ding ding!

You have successfully explained why “hide and rez” doesn’t work, and how that “counter-intuitive gameplay” is literally just a detrimental strategy.

Except you literally just stated how it does.

I set up a situation in which Mercy blew Resurrect just for the hell of it. You replied with:

Which is punishment for that kind of play.

And you have already explained why this isn’t a viable strategy.

“Hide and rez” backfired more often than it succeeded. It was a maladaptive strategy that was detrimental to the team’s chance of success. It was a misuse of an ultimate.

Similarly, blowing oneself up with Rocket Barrage is a maladaptive strategy that was detrimental to the team’s chance of success. It was a misuse of an ultimate.

Removing Resurrect because of a misuse of an ultimate (“hide and rez”)is as justifiable as removing, say, Rocket Barrage because of a misuse of an ultimate (blowing oneself up with self-damage).

You posted a link to a video about the OWL. I fail to see how the OWL represents everyone.

You said:

Which is objectively false, and quite the opposite is showing with a recent forum survey:

Mercy Survey - Results

And we see the following numbers on the people who voted:

The largest portion of players who voted in that survey, even the non-Mercy mains, collectively voted that they would rather revert to mass-rez over any other option.

So now that you’ve seen the stats from the survey, let’s make a statement about it:

Lots of players enjoyed playing with and against Resurrect. To quote you:

Actually, it’s built on diverse gameplay. Ultimates are bonuses, not baseline. Why do you think they are called “Ultimates”?

If Overwatch was “built on ults”, they wouldn’t be called “Ultimates”; they would be called “Normals”.

There is only one ultimate in the game that can withstand 3+ ultimates being spammed, and even that one can be overwhelmed by sheer damage; something ultimates provide in excess.

Transcendence out of 28 different ultimates in the game doesn’t cut it.

Well, first there’s the issue that the lore is clearly waaaaay in the backseat; there’s the problem that Mercy basically has not lore…

To the contrary, it needs to be in-game to carry any meaning at all.


#160

Pickrate doesn’t automatically equate to viability. Genji’s still being picked in GM because he’s like, the last fun hero left to play who isn’t stupidly OP.

This doesn’t change that invulnerability mass rez Mercy was OP.

So because pros would rather play a more mechanically skilled hero (Ana), means invulnerability mass rez Mercy wasn’t OP? :thinking: You literally HAD to play Mercy at that time but no one wanted to play her because of how boring she was. No one liked playing the hero.

Nah, worst versions of Mercy are definitely invulnerability mass rez Mercy and the busted Valk version.

Yeah but of course though the eyes of a Mercy player, this is all so easy right.

“Just wipe them again LUL?”

How do you not see rez as a boring and counter-intuitive ability. You shouldn’t get punished for team wiping by having to team wipe a second time. Of course you think it’s fine because team wiping to you takes no skill and is just *spamming Q". :joy: Yikes.

Or you know, no one knows where the Mercy is because she’s playing hide n seek and the fact that GA isn’t exactly slow and the fact that invulnerability was a thing while rezzing. Not only that but most of the time she didn’t even have to GA in when she could rez through walls, whether above or underneath. Jesus Christ she was boring and busted. shrugs

Yes because that is a counter-intuitive.

Literally no damage hero does this the same way Mercy did, and it’s not even a comparison. Unless you mean they’re re-grouping with their team to coordinate ults and go in as six instead of ulting alone.

Which took 0 skill.

Which goes to show how dumb the ability is. It’s either bad or too good. It doesn’t work.

Not really shock value when everyone and their mother knew the rez was coming. It was just a matter of how fast they could stop it, and most of the time you couldn’t because she’d mass rez through a wall.

You don’t exactly have to factor in those factors. No matter what you’ll probably just have to use rez, because it’s better than not using it. You’re trying to make it seem like mass rezzing required more brain power than it did. This is what this entire novel is. Trying to make something seem very complex and difficult when it can be summarized or told in a few sentences lol.

Whether or not you think the enemy team has more ults, you’re still going to rez and pray that your team can out-skill the ults. Especially if we’re talking about a KoTH situation. You’re not going to let the enemy team get more free percentage by deciding to not rez because you think the enemy team has more ults. What happens if you think the enemy team has ults every fight? You’re just gonna not use rez the whole round and lose? Sounds solid my guy.

This post just explains why rez is counter-intuitive.

“Don’t use ults! Just die so I can possibly mass rez and have you guys team wipe the enemy after I press Q!”

They can expect it and still not do anything about it when she’s above you rezzing the whole team.

It doesn’t.

Hiding makes your team purposely struggle just so you can revive them again.

Why leave in the first place when you, the healer, can/should just stay in the fight and try to keep everyone up? Mercy needs an ult that allows her to be present in the fight and contribute. Not go hide and be counter-intuitive by letting her team die. How you think this is fine is beyond me.

Yes yes. Just re-typing the same stuff. Team wipes other team, team stakes out for Mercy, team gets rezzed either way, team gets wiped again.

It’s boring. No one likes playing against it or with it. When things die, they should stay dead. No one wants to have look out for Mercy because she’s hiding every fight to rez her team. It just got so draining at one point when she didn’t even have to GA in (which was the only way you could effectively kill her to stop rez) to rez her team.

How do you not read this post and tell yourself “Wow, what a boring ult and meta this was.”

Seriously.

But you still want this as an ult? Yeah no thanks dude.

How on planet Earth are those two comparable to you? Mass rez was removed by the simple fact of it being unbalance-able and no one enjoying it in the game. I mean, didn’t Jeff even say they’re not going back to mass rez?

As for Pharah, she doesn’t even usually blow herself up with her ult. She usually gets two picks and dies for it. At worst she trades. Not seeing the comparison here.

I’d rather rez on a cooldown than go back to the cancer known as mass rez. Though if I had it my way, I’d completely remove rez from the game, give her a new ult and perhaps new ability.

Which I, in turn already replied to.

Doesn’t matter, because by then the Mercy will be hidden somewhere. In a fast-paced game like Overwatch, you don’t exactly have the luxury of time to go for a stroll and try to find the Mercy. You just have to pray you can kill her when she GAs in or just save ults for when Mercy rezzes and try to wipe the team again. Which by the way is already detrimental because if you already decided to save ults for the second fight, then that’s just going to lower your chances at even securing the first fight.

And there’s nothing with promoting it even more by removing rez.

If you build up 6 ults, you pretty much deserve to wipe the team. It takes up a lot of precious time on the clock to build all of that up. Most of the time it’s not even worth it because by the time you build 6 ults, the percentage is already at 90% and the enemy team only needs one fight to win and you’re no in hell going to build up 6 ults again to retake the point. Mass rez doesn’t need to be an answer for team wipes. I mean, it already was and still failed miserably so.

If you know they got grav, spread out. If they got blade, spread out, or maybe use a defensive ult if you have it. It’s all about limiting the casualties and out-playing ults. A 5v6 isn’t unwinnable, hell I’ve even seen 3v6 comebacks. It’s hard but you need good positioning and teamwork etc.

Mass rez was promoting pretty much nothing that I said above and handed you everything on a silver platter by pressing Q.

An “I win button” was something more along the lines of mass rez. Where you quite literally press Q and get your value, if there is any to be had.

A Winston using Primal Rage isn’t an “I win button”. He’s doing more than pressing Q. A Genji dragon blading isn’t an “I win button”. A Tracer landing a stick isn’t an “I win button”. A Soldier visoring isn’t an “I win button”.

But it’s okay it’s all ultimate spam. All GG no re buttons am I right? Clearly you have a problem with ultimates in this game and you’re using that to justify mass rez being okay.

Yeah, because of the process it’s done in. It’s counter-intuitive. And the fact that you want to act like mass rez was the only answer to “ultimate spam” when it wasn’t. People can survive ults without having to be rezzed afterwards.

Hardly.

Doesn’t change the cancerous nature of the ability.

Obviously, but again, this doesn’t make the ability healthy for the game and not counter-intuitive.

Just because it was an ultimate doesn’t mean you had to go for the 5k every time to get value. Sometimes you had to tempo rez to keep the push going because one or two of your teammates weren’t valuing their lives as much and got picked off. Imagine that. :smiley:

Strategy doesn’t work now? Since when homeboy? Last time I checked, spreading out to only have your Rein sucked in the grav actually works and is a winnable fight, especially if you manage to keep your Rein up. Ultimate spam isn’t an automatic GG, even if it’s 6 ults. I already explained this.

How? She pressed Q and did her job. Now it’s up to her teammates to bring on their fair share of the work. Still doesn’t make the ability not bad.

Yes I know. Counter-intuitive. Pretty terrible right?

A 5v6 is a winnable fight.

No, I just acknowledge that it’s either terrible or too good. It’s not consistent. Add that on top of the fact that it’s a counter-intuitive ability and you have something that’s not healthy for the game.

There’s a plethora of reasons why it can’t work and why it’s a terrible ability. Reasons I’ve already stated.

Yeah but then I replied with:

I explained why it’s counter-intuitive. That’s entire point. Whether it works or not doesn’t make it any less unhealthy for the game. It just further proves why it is unhealthy.

It succeeded more than it backfired, I think you meant to say. That’s how I vividly remember it.

Except this seldom happens. Pharah rarely “blows herself up”. If she does, that’s directly the players fault for positioning themselves to close to an object. There is the off time a Winston or DVA dives you and gets in your face to make you eat your own rockets, which is where the seldom part comes from. Though why do that when virtually anyone can take her out of the sky when ulting? Pharah usually dies by someone else while managing to get a pick or two, not by blowing herself up.

Not even a close comparison. I like the effort of the reach though.

I mean, OWL is still consisted of a lot of people, and those people have a huge following. Go into any twitch chat and ask them about rez and see what they think about. I’m constantly watching streams so I already know what those answers are.

Ah, the infamous Mercy survey that no one should take seriously because the only people who most likely took it are a bunch of biased Mercy mains who don’t care about balance and want to go back to “having fun”. Wouldn’t be surprised if the people who took that survey are a bunch Mercy mains on this forum at that too, which probably doesn’t even reflect 5% of the OW community.

And how do you know said players are actually DPS mains or tank mains? I could be a Mercy one-trick and just call myself a tank player just for the hell of it.

The game is largely built on teamwork, strategy, communication, ults etc. You rely on ults to win team-fights and everything is mostly centered around them. This would rationally be a much different game if ults didn’t exist.

So you’re pretty much complaining because one support ult can’t negate 3 damage ults. Wow, spoken like a true support main right there. Complaining about that is the equivalent to players who complain about Pharmercy when the try to solo the combo, which is a duo.

Actually, Trance + grenade can withstand a lot. You probs didn’t know that though.

Her lore is being a doctor who saves lives. That’s lore and rez can be instilled in that. That’s all she’s got. Don’t blame, I’m not the writer who’s taking forever to pump out lore.

Agree to disagree I guess.