Let’s say they bring back mass rez with severe limitations like requires Los and no invulnerability. How does this help mercy in any way at the top of the ladder in diamond and above? The whole reason the invulnerability was added was she was troll pick in those ranks.
I don’t see how an ulti that may get off every once in a few times or never in the course of an entire match is fun. I would find it more frustrating to never get to use my ulti and the added abuse from my own team.
The tweaks don’t necessarily have to be all negative. Maybe her invulnerability could be tuned to 50% damage reduction (and no CC immunity, so you can’t just rez and walk out of a grav), like they did with Hog.
And Mercy got ult pretty quickly. Not as quickly as, say, Junk or Hanzo, but pretty fast, usually within the first minute or so. And if you were good, or the enemy was bad, you could have rez every 90-110 seconds, maybe faster. So it was definitely not an ult you would use “every once in a few times or never”.
What cheesed most of us is that they never even tried. There were tons of ideas here and elsewhere regarding potential balance changes and ideas for her E ability. But no, let’s listen to the “pros” that literally want her deleted from the game and push out a sh*tty “rework” using assets and ideas from 2015 that we already know don’t work.
2 Likes
Talks about bias.
Is the most biased Mercy thread yet.
K
Or we can remove rez from e give some other ability. Remove rez from ulti as well and give damage reduction to people being chain healed via valk.
1 Like
Great counter argument, but have you considered: No, U.
On 2cp sometimes even if you killed her first she would be able to comeback
Just revert Mercy, make rez a charge based ultimate. Say you get resurrect (ultimate) that allows 1 res, it then starts again an is stacked so you get 2 res’s and again once more for 3 res’s which can all be used in quick succession.
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I’ve been pretty happy with how Mercy has turned out from a gameplay point of view but making her too strong has had a negative effect on the other supports viability.
I’ll be much happier with a balanced version of this current Mercy than any viable version of Mercy with a Mass rez. (it was fun to have but very unfun to play against, especially on 2cp)
I really don’t think they need to make striking changes to balance her, I sort of would prefer if they tried to give us more gameplay with the changes than just tweaking raw numbers but I guess this thread brings up a point that the changing of gameplay is often met with upset.
I suppose just tweaking her healing numbers is a good place to change her without actually changing her kit.
I bet the dev’s shiver every time they realise they really need to nerf Mercy because the outcry on the forums against a process that all the characters go through is particularly massive for Mercy.
yes no one has liked the rework. the mercy mains and non-mercy mains all hated the rework. Bring back the old mercy that said “Heroes never die”
Mercy has been such a chore to play and so dang oppressive to play against, ever since the rework. Res on E has taken the false claim of “hide and res” to a new level now that the slow/cast time makes it mandatory to be in cover to res. And lo and behold - the most active use of Mercy, even among the ‘Pros’ Blizzard were so desperate to appease with the rework - is as a res/damage boost bot. Boost Hanzo, res Hanzo, heal Hanzo so he doesn’t die = win. That’s been 90% of the games I’ve played this season. Now that is not solely Mercy’s fault, the new Hanzo has a stupid amount of outgoing damage if the player can even somewhat aim, but it does relegate Mercy to standing in the back with the sniper, not joining her team. That is not good or compelling gameplay. And fact of the matter is, Valkyrie is an extremely lackluster and passive Ultimate that simply automates Mercy’s usual kit, rather than provide that crucial “moment of glory” that most of the other Ultimates in the game do.
It’s time to scrap this rework. We’ve laid out the case why for over 9 months now, you’ve refused to even engage in a discussion, we’re not saying you have to agree, but at least have the decency to show up at the table, Blizzard. You keep putting out these various PR statements like “we feel that…” and then when Mercy players ask why you feel like that, when we can provide a counterpoint, they’re met with silence. Not just in terms of lack of response or engagement, but now the forum mods seem to be jumping on the bandwagon as well.
Enough is enough. The rework is a failure, failures happen. You forcefully redesigned a character to appease players that didn’t play her, but were annoyed by her, and you made it worse. Time to acknowledge that mistake and make a Mercy that her playerbase actually enjoys playing, that lets them feel impactful on their own merit not just as a damage booster or pocketer of DPS.
It’s time to actually talk to your players not at them.
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We all want a hanzo nerf of the storm arrows to 5 or 4 charges. But they dont want listen.
Also wraxu want this nerf.
What is the intention? Lack of balance? Putting chemicals in the water? Establishing a new world order run by shapeshifting lizard people?
#revertmercy #mercy2.0isgarbage #blizzardgetoveryourself
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Really doesn’t matter, blizzard don’t care who plays the game or how. All they care is that people play the game.
Games been out two years now and it’s still a sh!t show.
i dont accept 'unfun to play against" anymore
ANY ability or ult that defeats you is unfun to play against
its NOT a good enough reason on its own.
the only thing that can be looked at is how EASY something is to do
like Grav dragons
I dont mind em but plenty of people do,and admittedly with the hanzo rework they are too easy to do
but they shouldnt remove grav OR dragon to make it more fun to play against,cause it will never be fun to play against,its supposed to defeat you
So if mass rez was easy to do ,make it harder,that was the solution,not change it completely at the drop of a hat
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Read my entire thread please, instead of quoting 1 line and then responding to that.
Guys, you can agree that mass-rez was terrible and that the removal was a good thing in general.
But most people who think this, also tend to think that the resurrect becoming a standard ability was crap, or that the Valkyrie ultimate was a terrible idea and even more OP than mass-rez.
Hence my 3 examples. Chances are you are in agreement with one or more of them. And as long as that is the case, you can agree that the rework has been a failure.
I find it hard to believe you liked every step in the process when it comes to Mercy… but I guess, for some people Blizzard can do nothing wrong.
i dont agree massrez was crap
I think it just needed to be harder to do and get a bit of counterplay
thing is mercy was terrible before invincibility,
Remove invincibility (maybe damage reduction)
Slight cast time
LOS
and its already very different
btw usually 2-3 people were rezzed,not the whole team as people think it always was.
Where it was actually good was that it FELT powerful and gave an amazing feeling,like pulling of a 4 person kill with reaper death blossom
Mercy has now NOTHING anymore that has that same rush
Valk is boring,flying gets old fast
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I disagree, there are plenty of ultimates that you get defeated by that are much more interesting to have in the game and have decent counterplay - It was unfun because it had basically nothing to counter it.
If you get killed by whole hog then maybe you are upset that you died but when you die you know that you or a member of your team could have prevented it by: stunning hog,sleeping him, knocking him back out of effective range, defense matrix, good old fashioned killing him, being healed enough to find cover, having a barrier buy time to get behind cover, deflecting it back at hog, freezing him, walling him, clutch tp escape, etc.
The list of counter options for most of the ultimates are way bigger, they feel more inherently fun to fight against because they can go wrong for the person using them.
Mercy mass rez was out of the hands of her opponents, it was an ultimate that just said ‘my team decides if this works or not’. Sure you could kill Mercy but that didn’t get rid of the ultimate, she still had it for the next fight, it didn’t counter it at all, it just delayed it.
Almost every recommendation to bring back mass rez does not solve this counterplay problem, how do you balance a mass resurrect in a way that doesn’t have Mercy die every time and provides the enemies with at least some counterplay.
the grav/dragon combo is getting nerfed, Hanzo’s dragons don’t benefit from damage boost and grav is getting an area reduction so you can run a zen ult plus another healer and survive the combo - They literally are adding counterplay options because having low counterplay is unfun.
How am i JUST NOW Finding this thread?
Almost every recommendation to bring back mass rez does not solve this counterplay problem, how do you balance a mass resurrect in a way that doesn’t have Mercy die every time and provides the enemies with at least some counterplay.
i already provided short answer to that issue
thing is mercy was terrible before invincibility,
Remove invincibility (maybe damage reduction)
Slight cast time
LOS
and plenty of other people have too,there are many many ideas that would have worked
this is another of my ideas for example but there are many like it and other possibilities that would be much better then we have now
As i see it mercy is the center around her is her range
The rez should START from the center
people closest to her get rezzed first
people farthest get rezzed later
she has cast time while this happens
She has damage reduction when this happens but no invincibility (the rate can be discussed she is quite squishy)
If she gets killed before the further people are reached over a span of maybe 2-3 seconds the rez interrupts.
THis can mean a couple of things
A) the rez is incomplete the furthest people dont get rezzed
or
B) The rez is incomplete the furthest people have half health
and then there are some other things that could be tweaked or added to how it works
Mass rez was perfectly balanceable ,people against mass rez just dont wanna accept them as solutions because they are aginst rez as a whole. Sorry but that’s not good enough.
and no
unfun to play against is also not a good enough reason anymore to fundamentally change a character.
a good Hanzo is still unfun to play against,BUT he’s also more consistent,dying to him feels less bullsh*t then before,in that manner storm arrows is much better then scatter arrow. He now only needs some damage value changes.
1 Like