Mercy 50hps Flying 60hps not Flying

General Discussion
338

I’ll be blunt: I don’t care what other faceless people on the internet think of me or “us”. I’m going to advocate for what I think is right, and nobody’s negative opinion of me or “us” is going to stop me.

Respect is a two-way street. I will give my respect to the people I speak to until they prove they are not worth my respect because they are not willing to reciprocate.

This is a fat lie you pulled out of your six. None of “us” labeled you as a “traitor” for disagreeing. You are entitled to your opinion of Mercy, just as we are. Disagreement is not belligerence. Know the difference.

If “we” truly saw you as a “traitor” for disagreeing, then you wouldn’t still be in my Discord server. Nobody has earned the honor of being called a “traitor”, and I’m honestly not sure what they would have to do to earn that title; what I do know is that anybody who does manage to earn it will be banned from the server in an instant.

Taking criticism has never been a problem for me. I observe it and consider it, but criticism does not entitle you or anyone to action on my part. You said the Pacify proposal in my megapost would be overpowered; I and many others who collaborated on the proposal disagreed and chose not to change it. From that, you constructed this whole “Mercy cult” delusion, when in reality you would have left the Discord server long ago if that’s the way you really felt. If you took my inaction from your criticism personally, that’s your own fault.

There are… a lot of things wrong with this assertion.

First, there’s the presumption that all of “us” will defense every “pro-Mercy idea” and attack every “anti-Mercy” idea. Just a few days ago, I reviewed a rework proposal from another Mercy main in my Discord server and told them that their idea would “singlehandedly break the game” as written. As for the “anti-Mercy” ideas, I’m… honestly not sure what that would include at this point, other than leaving her as she is. Even then, that’s subjective because believe it or not, some people in my Discord server are okay with her current state.

Second, none of this is being orchestrated by me. None of “our” forum activities, other than the rework proposal in my megapost and another certain event that led to the “Mercy Ice Cream Movement”, were collaborative efforts led by myself, and the latter of the two was just for kicks and giggles.

People hated the Mercy rework long before I even created my Discord server. I didn’t gather a group of people and say “We’re all going to complain about the rework”, there were already a bunch of people complaining about the rework and someone said “Hey, wanna make a Discord server?”. If I didn’t gather a bunch of people together, then we would all be complaining independently from each other.

There is no Easter Bunny, there is no Tooth Fairy, and there is no Mercy Hive Mind.

There is no damage that cannot be healed, unless you are referring to the players that left because of the rework. Maybe they’re gone for good, but the developers can always change Mercy into a to a better state to satisfy the remaining Mercy players.

This sounds like projection. You’re the one calling us “cultists” for not taking your word as gospel just because you claim to have some experience in game development.

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339

It would keep her from being a stronger pocket for Pharah or Echo.

340

Who said she was pocketing the Pharah or Echo?

341

You don’t seriously believe that this isn’t going to be an issue with increased healing, do you?
It’s a problem that must be addressed if her healing is to be increased. She has very strong synergy with those heroes.

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342

The buff is still a stupid idea

343

This thread currently seems to have some better ideas for Mercy buffs anyway, I’ve already jumped ship :^)

344

The devs have solid numbers, logic and a very clear view of what would happen if Mercy had Mass Ress/60hps again. Let me all remind you that Moira even got her healing nerfed and Mercy is the MOST consistent healer. Increasing her numbers under ANY circumstance would lead to her being on the top again, while also being the EASIEST healer to pick up with the EASIEST value per skill invested.

Im not a Dev ofc but I suspect those 2 things, Mass Ress and 60hps is a HARD NOPE from them. Good luck though.

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345

Thats precisely the problem, we got so agressive with each other that it lead the community to label or view us that way. We were no longer there to negotiate nor to have a debate or two way conversation about it.

Your very reply is still the same as what it was 2 years ago, you DON’T care about Overwatch, you care only about Mercy and only for Mercy.

In the end what happened? Did any of your idea’s get implemented? The very last discussion I had with members of the group that was still proactively engaged in the thread started to talk about Heal Rates, why the other supports weren’t pick and the strengths and weakness, I took the realisitic approach rather than induldge in fantasy and pushing for ridiculous ideas and snapping at anyone who disagreed.

In the end 50HPS happen and all the buff to supports occured and as I was saying at the time, it’s clear that Blizzard was monitoring your Megathread, they don’t care about the suggestions we gave, most of them were adapted for the other heroes that came out… anything that can be used to realistically used to curb Mercy or aligns with their objective, they will take and use.

That is why I gave up on the whole thing and I’ll gladly take the blame for suggesting the nerf to Mercy’s healing as I brought up that discussion not only in your thread but other threads as well. I took an objective view, considered what Blizzard’s goals were for Mercy and gave an objective view on the issue.

They’re looking for Super Mercy or a Rework Mercy they needed to address her Pick Rate and reverse the damage dealt by 2.0 and that is why they most likely saw the Support comments on how Mercy was technically stronger than all the other supports at the time and curbed her.

Right now, what could change things for Mercy and offer an oppotunity was a mild QoL improvement is the Hero Pool system, I’ve just read the announcement… they’re going to lock 1 tank, 2 Damage and 1 Support base on Pick rates which will induce talks about Mercy’s Healing Rate and discussions on Ana and Moira and because they are high, they are going to be next on the chopping block (sooner or later) but all of this will have to come after Echo has made her impact.

346

Precisely… anyone with common sense also knows how much of a pain it is to kill Pharah even with 50HPS most of our Damage Community can’t even pop the bullet and kill Pharah and if they kill Pharah first, Mercy res her and Mercy is just building up an ult… kill Mercy first and problem is solved, but no… let’s ignore the golden angel in the sky.

347

Thnak you, someone who is talking sense and is objectively considering both sides.

The thing is 60HPS is ‘too high’ because it allows Mercy to heal in a preventive death sort of the situation, so long as your team mates aren’t too reckless, Mercy can deny death through healing. She can still do so on 50HPS but it means her team cannot Dive or play super recklessly unless they have the skills to do so.

Moira no matter what Buff or Nerf she has, she will ALWAYS be plagued with Resource issues and for those haters who hate her attacking, attacking people is what enables her to regain the resource to attack. Moira was designed specifically to punish constant healing, if you need a constant healer, you need Mercy.

60HPS and Mass Res isn’t really a hard nope, main reason is a nope is because Jeff did actually take it to the Forums or Reddit can’t remember which, Stylosa covered it once and declared that he or they at Overwatch design/dev team will never revert or go back on a decision they have made.

Even though they have made so called ‘Reverts’ most of these changes are subtle variances of what they once were, example Hog’s hook functions quite differently from the original hook. Also if it was on the PTR and was never on Live, then that doesn’t count.

348

More like developers just do not want Mercy to be good ever again.
They couldn’t remove her mobility and resurrect, but they could make both almost pointless to have.

My personal issue with supports, is that developers attempt to “sell” aim-heavy heroes, that aren’t as great, as DPS. Which, in my opinion, makes it pointless to pick supports - why aim as support, when you can aim as DPS and have much better impact? And without having to care about your teammates, too, which is extra bonus.

Most noticeable as Ana: you have to hit moving teammate…only to have them slowly(75 hps) recover their health after shot hits them. What’s the point of making aim-heavy healer, if you still going to cap their healing rate twice - by aiming requirement and by hard limit?

349

In our line of work, Balances is always a touchy subject especially if something like Mercy can cause huge drama. Mainly because you will have people working on PR complaining about it, people on support/Forums complaining about it, higher up’s like Jeff Kaplan etc probs being sick of it and analytics having their own seperate reviews and probs designers/developers most likely upset that they keep reqorking Mercy… some may love the new Mercy others may not…

Creative differences is what drives people to leave… tbh I bet Micheal Chu left because of Creative Differences because the Lore and Story and everything is a hugh mess and I guess internally things are a mess as they don’t know what direction to go in.

Some probs want it to be more PvE/RPG… others might want it more focus on the league and Competitive… whilst others might want it to be rich in lore and story or to be fun and playable.

The thing is the game was marketed on the premise of Diversity and flexibility and that any one from anywhere had a place in Overwatch and can play Overwatch… but the game sytematically rewards individuality as oppose to team work and team effort to win… it was suppose to be designed on the basis of… oh we don’t have a healer… I can go Ana or Baptise because I can aim and switch

This is what happens when you make a game that has too many identities and no clear direction of what it should be or what it wants to be

350

I am individualistic support, so I don’t haven an issue with game rewarding individuality.

What I do have issue with, is distinct difference in impact - great sniper can eliminate whole team, but great Ana can’t counter that in similar fashion. Both are, technically, snipers.

In other words, game rewards shooting and killing way too much, compared to saving, protecting and helping. Damage boosting good teammate won’t even earn you a medal, but will earn them gold damage easier.

351

But the problem there is that it doesn’t work…

Like you play a team competitive game where the objective is to win as a Team but at the end of it you aren’t judge on your team effort but you individual performance as a Hero during that duration of the match.

Rather than Rank you on Hero performance/value you on what Rating you are base on Hero performance, you get average out on how you win/lose base on contribution to a team fight?

So you can statistically perform to the top capabilities of that hero, but if you can’t win… you lose SR?

To be honest if things made sense in this game, I wouldn’t be feeling this fustration and confusion… Ana vs Widow for Example… both are snipers but both snipe differently with Ana’s scope being able to hit easier than Widows or the fact that Hanzo’s arrow can actually curve and land BS shots…

352

I meant outcome. If Ana’s headshot on teammate was providing said teammate with temporary invulnerability, it would be appropriate reward for sniper, on same level with Widowmaker.

Things do make sense in this game. Except it goes against declared goals.

353

That would be cool but at the same time I feel like that would be too much?

Then again Immorality field is basically Mercy’s Invulnerable during res, which again sounds like once of the alternate suggestion for the burst Heal Res Ultimate thing we suggested since we were at the time arguing about Heal Burst, Res, Over heal and maybe give Invulnerable to all alive heroes in the immediate vacinity of the AoE…

So guess another of Baptise kit is just a Mercy idea rip off? But even that is now being viewed as a pain, but they at least address the issue to have Immortality Field to be destroyable.

354

Fixed for you.
They absolutely could, they just didnt want to.
The problem is people like you using the word “good” when the reality and what they mean (even if you are not aware of it) is “Must have/Top”.

Again, for the hundred gazillion time in this forums:
Mercy has NO downsides besides her not being able to deal damage and having no mobility without team mates.
Both “cons” are really not that bad since, she has damage boost (to cover the first one) and in a team game, if NO team mates are available, you shouldnt be alive/engaging the enemy anyway as a support.

If you BUFF one of her “not top things” she has (not being able to heal with top numbers per second) you make her a MUST HAVE. Not good, not decent, A MUST HAVE. its very different.

The moment you accept that reality, it becomes easier accepting why she should not have 60hps again.

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355

In absence of multiple resurrects, she won’t ever become must have.
Those downsides you mention are really significant.

356

Actually with 60HPS Mercy if you get good enough at her, you can confortably swap to Damage and deal damage and assist with a kill if for example your healed target is failing to kill.

Damage boost main problem is that it depends on the aim of the team mate who is trying to make the kill, so if they miss, you don’t get value… Valkyrie makes up for this flaw and now I’m getting repeatitive deja vu as this was the explanation I gave years ago…

But TLDR depending on what tier you were playing at, Battle Mercy was more beneficial than boosting hence why in the early days you broke the camp into two camps the aggressive Mercy’s who can Heal and GA etc and occassionally get their hands dirty or higher tier Mercy who can fully rely on their team mates and play defensively and ensure their survival.

This was why there was an early divided opinion pre 2.0 Those that played defensively felt they had little to no engagement whilst those who played aggressively did.

50 HPS is most likely to stay, the question is… how do you make her feel better to play? You can’t boost Valkyrie and GA and Angelic descent can’t really be improved… Damage Boost and her bullet damage is pretty much set in stone… so only thing left is Ressurect tweaking… but you can’t keep making changes on Mercy because she is at a dead end on possible changes to her kit/character.

They’ve overworked it and that is why she is largely neglected, suppose you make the changes to Res, you can’t make another change or more changes to it… plus there a limit to what can be changed.

357

Which is best way to play support, in my opinion. To not be engaged.

Or, like one player in TF2 said me, best support is support, that is nowhere to be seen, yet teammates are healed to full.

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