Megathread part 4.1 (oct 2018) beam buff not enough!

General Discussion
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Sym’s kit is so bad that you honestly need a lot of gamesense to make her work. Her primary fire is low skillcap but so is winstons. To make her work you really need to have a good positioning awareness and point-blank aiming skill (orb + melee combo + primary). Since she’s melee hero with low mobility, if you don’t have good sense of positioning you will be hard stuck from ranking up. Same thing with her buildables, if you make a poor nest then you’ve lost 15-35 seconds of setup time for a nest that doesn’t have proper LoS positioning.

I think keeping her kit and adding an ability would raise her skillcap, and that’s what they’re looking at doing so I think that is covered.

That being said, a poor rez is punished by losing your primary source of healing, so Yes, I think it’s balanced. Likewise. Symmetras teleporter is countered by poor gamesense of both the Symmetra and her team. The amount of times I’ve had my entire walk past a potentially game-saving teleporter in spawn is disgusting. Most of the time it’s better to use shield gen instead in solo queue because teams are so braindead with teleporters.

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I didn’t played Dissidia NT, but I had experience with the previous versions. Can you expand on this topic? Emperor wasn’t really that strong in previous titles.

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That is an interesting idea, making her a bit more like how Probius works in HotS. I don’t think it will work with your numbers in Overwatch because of how strong mobile heroes are here. Both in ease to reach any specific point in the map, and raw power to break a still defenseless target.

250 HP, for instance, is within the ability for Tracer to one clip and melee it down in literally one second. Genji Dash + Fan shuriken + Melee deal 164 damage. Another RMB+Melee break it. Also, all a little longer than one second. Sure, you might be able to kill them when they focus on your building, but at that HP level, she will need to constantly replace it simply because its impossible to defend. It was this that made Blizzard change her Teleporter from 200 HP to 50 HP + 350 Shield, because even if you was on top of your TP all the time, you simply couldn’t defend it from a flanker.

Unless, of course, you mimic Probius an allow her to build two or three pylons (no effect stacking, just range). So even if they break one, you have reserves. If they want to stop you from doing your support, they need to find all your pylons.

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My ideal rework

Passive: A Better World

All shield health recharges after 1 second without taking damage instead of 3, and recharge 50% faster, in a 50 M radius of sym

Gun #1: *Photon Projector *

Remains unchanged except the lock on distance is brought down to the old 5 meters, tether distance now 10 m

Gun #2 : the Glove

Symmetra’s abilities (E and Shift) change depending on which gun is equipped

Abilities w main gun:

-SHIFT = Photon Shields

Same as before, but now grant shields equivalent to 25% of the target’s health. Targets must remain in a 50 m range of Sym to feel the effect

Cooldown 1 second

-E = Photon Barrier

Now slows down in direct proportion to the more health it loses (50% health = 50% speed lost).

Cooldown 5 seconds

Abilities w gun #2 (the glove)

-Shift = Turrets AND Teleporter

you cycle between these by pressing SHIFT, and deploy as normal by pressing the price are fire button

Can now hold 10 turrets in reserve, have 10 deployed. They only do 15 dps each BUT disable movement abilities, and the slow is increases to 50% each

Teleporter max charges increases to 10 but you have to spend turrets to make one. So, if you make a TP W 1 turret in reserve it will only have 1 charge.

You can choose how many of your available turrets to charge the teleporter with by holding the primary fire button whilst u have tele selected, and similar to charging orbs

Cast range is increased to 15 m for turrets and TP, cast time now 1 second

E = the Photon bridge from comic. 400 health, and the 30 sec cool down

ULTIMATES

ultimate #1

SOLAR FLARE

This is basically molten core. Lasts 12 seconds.

The strength of Syms shields, and this includes Syms native health as well, putting her health at 500 with only 100 non shield health

Her guns fire rate increases by +50%, the turrets gain 75 shield health and do 30 dps, there is no cast time or movement slow on the turrets, and and the turrets briefly stun each new enemy they hit

Ultimate #2

QUASAR

Basically coalescence for shields, but 12 second duration

Channelled ult, Sym releases a beam from her photon projector stretching 15 meters, and tether 30 meters.

Acts just like her primary fire to enemies (locks on, increasing damage, BLOCKED by barrier)

Allies who pass thru the beam (whether it is targeting the enemy or not) will receive 150 decaying shield health (decay rate 10 per second), max. 100 decaying shields grated by this ability

Sym also applies 150 decaying shields to herself which do not refresh, 10 second decay rate

Both of her ults now cost 1500 ult points

234

I wonder if they could keep her photon projector, but at each damage stage, make the beam less lock on and more just a solid beam.
E.g.
stage 1: 30dps full lock on-same as old.
Stage 2: more like Moira lock on, requires more aiming, lock on barely there.
Stage 3: straight beam-you could even have it thinning to a fine point-requiring Symmetra to get closer to her target for an accurate hit.
Maybe stage 3 could recharge symmetra’s own shield as long as she is inflicting damage, allowing her to take more hits as long as she gets to that level of damage.

This idea gives room for lower levels to do some damage with the lock on beam, but it could prove problematic if they lose aim by lv3. whether this pushes Sym too far up in terms of skill floor: I dont know.

As it is, her gun is fun to use, but not fun to get die by, the orbs are nice if a little slow.

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^https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/easy-ptr-fixes-for-sym-and-torb-try-them-on-console-face-with-monocle/18139

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As someone who plays Symmetra quite often, I really am curious what changes they have planned for her. Most of what I’ve read seems to be just player suggestions rather than something official from Blizzard. :-/

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Blizzard said they were going to look at several other characters before Sym-they probably have very little idea themselves, and I doubt they will tell us before they have started testing like they did with Hanzo.
I dont think we will hear anything for at least a month or two.

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Too impossible to tell, til they actually tell us something. Which could be months.

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Here is what I would like to see for a Symmetra rework.

All abilities keep current cooldowns and ultimate charges, main changes being:

QoL (Does not effect functionality):

Shield generator statistic: Shields provided tracked (in total, so X shields generated over either games), as well as defensive assists (any kill at 75hp or below). Can combine these for shield generator endgame card.

Teleporter: Offensive assists if users secure an elimination within active visual effect.

Turrets: Undestroyed turrets can be repositioned without triggering cooldown.

Functionality changes:

Photon Barrier: Clicking it again after deployment disperses 100 temporary shields that decay over 3 seconds to everyone within 6m.

Kit Rework:

Move Sentries to alternate weapon
OR
Prosthetic as secondary weapon.

New abilities allows for more temporary shields. Don’t care about the specifics of how.

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Emperor works like a support-control character, is a trap master, filling the battlefield with traps that opponents must dodge. Given players’ propensity for focusing on characters and not things scattered about the arena, this character can offer quite a surprise when played right. As he’s a ranged class that rarely engages directly in battle, if enemies get close, you can use some abilities to knock them back and give yourself some breathing room. Some of his attacks can be used as both a standard long range projectile, as well as a sticky trap that will remain around for a time. When you play him right, you can set up a labyrinthine passage of traps that will ensure enemies can’t touch you.

Symmetra has been a non-healing support, and I aprove it, but she’s bad being a non-healing support. Like Polyrhythm said before… her kit is bad and a rework is definitely needed. Don’t get me wrong I love TP, Turrets, and everything about her, but her kit ins’t good enough.

She has de lore and weapons to be a control and area denial hero.
She can build stuff and manipulate the light and we have to exploit that.

As Emperor, she could make…

  • Barriers that reflects projectiles.
  • Evoke an orb of light near foes that moves slowly towards them and if it hits paralyzes the enemy. (So if a ally is in trouble, you can use this ability to help, so the enemy has to decide between receiving the effect of the orb or dodge it and leave your team mate.) [NOTE: This is kind of a support-offensive ability]
  • Generate several explosive orbs of light around her for zoning, the orbs stay in there and doesn’t follow her, activating an effect when touched by enemies or casted again.
  • Generate a orb that temporarily persues and entraps foes. Once it stops pursuing, it remains in play as a trap. Maybe she could cast 2 at once like Emperor, but in OW this should have cooldown.

Being traps of light can open the posibilitie to be indestructible traps that remain in play temporarily, also, another person has been proposing a portal gun that could shoot one entrance and one exit, but restricting the exit to up to 30 meters near the entrance is good option. Or if this idea inst popular, she could also just open a portal that let team mates and her get to the other side. Giving her this open the possibility of supporting your team mates on maps like Hanamura.

SG ins’t that bad, but I think it would be better as an ability, she needs something better and active as ultimate. She could make light terrain where mobility skills are disabled for enemies and team mates receive +50 of shield health.

Her weapon is definitely inconsistent, but giving her this kind of abilities she wants to keep the enemy away, so Sym would need a different weapon.

However, there is also the theme of shields and make more structures for her. Some of the abilities that I proposed was in the form of orbs of light, but it can be changed by drones or something else.

Personally I feel that there are already many characters that provide or have a shield, for which I propose that she simply provide mobility with portals and structures (Jump pads, bridge), or provide safe zones for team mates with walls that can cross the allies and have to destroy the enemies, in short, more obstacles for the enemy and support for the partner.

241

I love how people cry about Sym auto aim

That takes at least 3 seconds within 10 meters, yet Zenny can literally one shot people and somehow that’s OK

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242

It’s more the fact that dying to Zenyatta is more fun then dying to Sym because there is more aim and more skill involved.
Trying to kill a Sym while shes bunny hoping around you is annoying, it might be somewhat fair-but it’s not fun, thats a problem that creeps up in this game a lot.
Watching as your health goes down faster and faster is like falling into a pit and nearing the bottom, it’s that last second of hopelessness that stays with you.

With other characters, I would say it’s quicker and less cruel. There is that thought after you die to Zen that he had to aim to kill you, you could have moved and he could have easily missed, but he made the shot-respect to him(even if it was just a fluke)

Sym just drags it out and fighting her feels like wasted time-same with Mei.

Sym’s lack of survability makes it a fair argument to say she has to take a risk-but attaching a beam that gets stronger and stronger and requires little aim seems to negate the ‘risk’ part of it somewhat.

She needs something to prove she IS worth respecting, that it took some semblance of skill aside from positioning for her to kill you.

I know she is designed for those who cant aim as well, but i think there needs to be something to tell those players “step out your comfort zone-just a little and see what happens”

She is an awesome character and fun to use, but she just doesn’t feel impactful, or fun to fight back.

Damn I’m posting a lot today.

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Honest question, in what aspect that is different than Winston? Winston don’t receive the same flak as Symmetra, despite being as “no-aim” and “only positioning-dependent” as her.

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Honestly-I don’t really play this game much anymore, but i love following it, from the grape vine its something to do with leaping in at the right moment and disrupting without being killed.
Not quite sure how that translates to skill, what sounds easy on paper can be very skillful in game.
I would ask a GM Winston, I’m sure they would know a lot more then me.

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But the point you presented is not about how fun is to PLAY her, but to play AGAINST her. If dying to Symmetra feel unfair because she only need positioning while the gun autolock, that is literally the same thing that Winston do, but people don’t get as angry dying to Winston.

I can tell you a ton of skillful moves that Symmetra can employ to kill faster, or prevent dying, like mastering the timing to orb people at zero range, control distance to bait key abilities against her barrier, and baiting people into your turret traps. But that is not the point on your reply, so I’m not focusing on that.

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Thanks for the explanation. I was looking at his moveset on youtube, and your explanation helped to understand it better in hindsight.

There is really a lot of good ideas there that the Overwatch team can use as inspiration to new abilities, but I’m not really sure how many of them would fit Symmetra, lore-wise. As in, there is more into each character than just their in-game effectiveness. There is a fantasy part behind each one, and Symmetra to me scream “I’ll bring order to chaos”. If you look at her movement, her abilities, her speak pattern, she pretty much plans everything she does in advance. Even her orbs are perfectly spherical and float in a straight line.

So, homing piercing balls with some effect to make enemies want to outrun/cover from them are ok. The magic sigil traps are also equally fine (they even kinda show up in her comic, that thing she puts in the walls do not resemble her in-game turrets).

That ice mine to blow up if someone comes closer don’t fit her imagery. Even the current Photon Barrier I think don’t fit her really well.

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This isn’t an issue unique to Symmetra. Winston is exactly the same, and no one seems to mind him.

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Dying to Genji dancing on your head isn’t very fun either

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I don’t know why but there is something inside the community that believes Symmetra is not as fun to play against.
From what i’ve heard it’s skill, how to differs from Winston, I don’t know.
League showed that the community definitely likes skillful plays, if they can capture just a little bit of whatever makes it fun to watch those characters and put it in Symmetra, she may have a chance to enter…

…THE META…