Matchmaker is unfair (PG13 version)

Competitive Discussion
1

Say you play in the 1500SR range.

There’s all kinds of players there, good ones, average and poor ones.

What seems to be happening:

You win a lot and are a good 1500 player (by comparison with the other 1500 ones).

The philosophy behind the matchmaker is to give you balanced games. Because Blizzard believes that this is what people want and some people even support this idea.

So, they grab you (the above average 1500) and give you 1500 teammates that have horrible stats.

The result is that you start losing, until the system thinks you’re not above average anymore and starts to give you better teammates.

And thus, people complain about winning and losing streaks and come to the forums.

I think this system sucks. Because if I go up in the ranks I expect to get to a point where I feel I’m dragging my team down, and then I know I’ve reached my limits and need to improve.

If I go up the rankings and get teammates that are worse than me I get frustrated and think the system is broken.

Fix this please.

8 Likes
2

try being 1900/2000ish… and being constantly paired with 1300’s and 1500’s and then losing multiple times :smiley: and getting forced lower and I don’t mean just one… 1300… or 1500… I mean the entire team dude… I would literally go on win spree’s then Bam i get paired back to back with perma auto lockers, no mics, nothing I honestly feel like I am in some type of purgatory… in this game.

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3

One of your points is good. If you are getting to somewhere where you aren’t good enough and you drop down out of that range. Then you just need to improve yourself. Why would you first reaction be is that the system must be broken.

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4

Because if I go up in the ranks I should see better players on my team, not worse players.

4 Likes
5

Maybe you are the one who isn’t good enough so the rest of the team looks bad as a result. Focus on your own improvement and not what teammates you have.

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6

Or maybe they are bad and I’m seeing ok.

Look, if this doesn’t happen in your games it’s all good. More power to you. I have stretches that I feel that the teams are indeed balanced and we all seem pretty close to each othyer in terms of skill or not being asleep.

I also check stats of people I play with. Usually after winning and going up a lot I start seeing what I wrote. 2 or 3 players on my team with horrible stats and very poor win loss ratios (like 50-4).

JK said that we all have the SR and a hidden MMR and they try to balance the games to make them even. I just want a clear system with randomized teammates, because i fear that all these streaks are an unintended side effect of what they are doing.

7

They removed “Prefer player” in the update today. If you are a very good player in your ELO with a lot more wins than losses and you carried really hard in a match which resulted in a win then the players who want to be carried would “Prefer you”.

If you play this game as much as I do then its possible that hundreds of players have preferred you so the same ones get put on your team in rotation over time resulting in loss after loss cause you get all those same players on your team who want to be carried cause they were losing before they met you.

Now that the prefer player is removed as of today after my game updated it was like a light switch, a night and day difference in comp matches. I went from waiting 3 minutes in Solo Que for a game (and losing) earlier this week to now under 20 seconds or less today (and winning).

Winning has also become much easier when you are not put with those players who preferred you but with the players the matchmaker selects based on your skill and MMR.

8

This is not how matchmaking works.

MMR is a (hidden) number that goes up when you win, and down when you lose. How much it goes up and down is a complicated formula, based on many factors, but the essential truth of wins == good, losses == bad is certain.

That MMR is then used to match people with and against people of similar MMR, in an attempt to create a 50% match. Unless a player is on the extreme ends of the MMR scale, he will be at a different MMR rank (1-6) with respect to his teammates in any given match, and has equal probability to be any given rank. That is, a different person will be selected to be the “carry” each game. Here is the key part:

If a player’s MMR is wrong and too low, then the odds to win will be greater than 50%, and the player will win more games than he loses, which will cause his MMR to rise over many games played. He will then be placed with stronger and stronger opponents (and stronger and stronger allies) until his MMR is correct, and his win percentage approaches 50% (with some random oscillation around 50%).

Once a player finds himself trapped in a rating range, the only way to break out is to improve as a player and play enough games to overcome any random factors.

What is SR then? SR is a visible and friendlier approximation of MMR. It has no more meaning with respect to matchmaking than tier icons. However, except for top players who have decayed, MMR and SR are closely linked, so inspecting SR typically gives a reasonable estimate of a player’s MMR.

See https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/how-competitive-skill-rating-works-season-9/14009 for a much more thorough exposition, as well as references to blue posts and data to back up all significant claims.

2 Likes
9

I find this guy funny :confused: I have multiple accounts that have 100% win rates yes in quick play (but 100%… is still pretty good in quick play) but I haven’t gotten them to competitive yet and I doubt I ever will or want to at this point. One account’s 44 wins in a row the other is 32 so I guess I should just forever play quick play seeing as I can’t lose there I guess…

10

Who is talking about quickplay? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

11

using it as a example. I just think quick play is more chaotic than competitive so a high win rate there is still relatively okay to use as some type of statistical data… it even what the Overwatch team uses when you first join into competitive lol. So it has to has some bearing even if it’s minor lol.

12

Yeah and I guess it can work in competitive, but like you say, it’s chaotic there.

I just want to see a clear system with random teams in comp, but I think they’ll never do it, because they like to control the experience.

13

They are having a internal conflict with where to take overwatch… and it shows with some people who left, pro’s , ex employee’s, and many more… you wonder how long they are planning to let the problems fester… I hope not till the point of no return…

1 Like
14

You have that on a clipboard?

That says nothing, except that they have MMR and SR. It’s very complicated, but there’s people working on it all day long and it works very well!

I don’t want a complex belief system! I want a simple random competitive mode, where you are matched by ping and SR and it randomizes teammates so you don’t always play with the same people as much as possible.

Why would anyone oppose this?

15

I am in favor of a simpler system, yes. Maybe silly theories like this one would go away. I’m not that optimistic though, as people are endlessly inventive when it comes to blaming others for their own inadequacies.

If you think that what I have written says nothing, maybe you should read it again. Slower. Including the link.

1 Like
16

Well then. You’d be happy, I’d be happy and everyone who feels like us would too.

Wouldnt you want me to be happy?

17

This is nonsense. All 1500 players are the same skill. 1500.

Some have different skill SETS. Some are playing poorly/well at that TIME. Some are better at certain maps than others. Some didn’t instalock their main fast enough…but when taken as a whole, all 1500 players are the same skill.

Our problems with the MM are not caused by balancing or not.

THEY ARE CAUSED BY NOT HAVING FAITH IN OUR FELLOW PLAYERS.

That lack of faith is reasonable. We do have throwers. We ARE discouraged from forming groups.

WE WILL NEVER FIX COMP PROBLEMS BY COMPLAINING THAT THE GAMES ARE RIGGED.

WE WILL FIX COMP BY DOING THINGS THAT INCREASE OUR FAITH IN OUR FELLOW PLAYERS THAT THEY ARE DOING THE BEST THAT THEY CAN, WIN OR LOSE.

18

So, you BELIEVE the system is fair and you advocate Kumbaya?

Ok, nothing against that. But I prefer a more pratical approach.

So, would YOU be against a simple random competitive mode, where you are matched by ping and SR and it randomizes teammates so you don’t always play with the same people as much as possible?

19

I would be totally for this.

Of course this is actually what we have.

Though there aren’t always enough people playing of your EXACT MMR/SR so there has to be some balancing available otherwise you’d just sit and rot in queue all night.

Not that balanced teams hurts anyone, since, you know, both teams are balanced not just yours.

Completely disregarding the statements of the developers as to how the system works and demanding changes that turn it into the system that they say it is, is not a “practical approach”.

20

They never said “We just go into your SR range and randomize players”. You just choose to believe that they do.

Open your mind a bit, read Jeff’s post again and see if you don’t find plausible doubt. If you don’t it’s your right to think that way.

You won’t dissuade me unless a dev clearly states that the system only goes by the visible points in the players’ rank and they clearly stated otherwise. For me, the solution is to abolish the difference between MMR and SR and have just one number that is used to get your matches and rate you.