Whats the point of not allowing people to back fill comp matches!? Played 4 Games today in 3 I had a leaver after the first point was lost after a quite good denefnce. Not even to mention that additionally you have to deal with all the one tricks that won’t change whatsoever.
So first game lost because a Gnegu one trick got mad that we had a Hanzo one trick and left after we lost the first point, pathetic. We still almost won that one in 5v6… Then one really hard win with a Hanzo one trick, luckily they had one too and he wasn’t even making any use of scatter arrows in comparison as our Hanzo did. Then a Symmetra/Bastion one trick instead of a second healer that placed the teleprompter where the small health pack to the left of the choke point is on Anubis - much value, destroyed twice at that spot before even anyone used it. Attack round was just a complete disaster everyone just tried to play around that idi… but he was just running in and dieing. Next queue, match canceled because someone 400SR under his season high left. Last match we get a Hanzo and Widow one tricks and the Widow additionally was disconnecting over and over again.
YOU CAN’T CLIMB BECAUSE YOU’RE AT YOU TRUE RANK AND COMPETITIVE WORKS LIKE A DREAM!
Back to the backfill. If that person loses the match after backfilling don’t make him lose SR, if he win, he gets the normal amount.
As much as backfill would be nice, it doesn’t really work in an ELO-based system.
If backfill exists and people who backfill don’t lose SR in those games, they could just grind out backfilled games and have a guaranteed climb, which isn’t indicative of their actual skill.
If people who backfill lose less SR if they lose (and this really depends on how much less they lose), you still have some opportunity for abuse where people could climb even with atrocious winrates.
If people who backfill lose full SR, then people wouldn’t do it. Why risk playing a game where you will most likely be on the losing side and risk losing the normal amount of SR?
How can you grind backfilled games? Like you could choose one… Also I don’t think that there is a way to exploit it, because the leaver would still get 50SR penalized, it’s at least equal of wining two full good games…
In my opinion the backfilled shouldn’t lose SR, but if it would be necessary, then he could lose just the procentage whitch he played. Like the game lasted for 20 mins, he joined in the 6th min, so he only loses 75% of the SR he would normally lose.
I think a better result for this is that if your team has a leaver, you don’t lose SR and the leaver gets a bigger punishment than 10 minutes. Such as a 12 hour ban. And also they should have more than 10 seconds to rejoin. Probably about 60 seconds.
if there is a leaver in one of your games there is a 6 out of 11 chance that the leaver will be on the enemy team, I would take those odds if I were you. It would be nice if Blizz kept this stat for us just to make sure we weren’t getting sniped, trolled etc.
The only solution for backfill is to fill in a bot, something like a roadhog and scale how much ult charge it can feed an enemy team and how much damage it can take with the elo it’s back filling in. Have it follow the highest number of players it can and if that isn’t possible to go straight to objective. It’s better than nothing but probably wouldn’t change the tide of battle much.
Introducing backfill would only create more problems then it would have solved.
A solution to a problem should solve the solution. Not make more problems.
Same goes with altering SR values for games with leavers. It just adds more problems that also need solutions.
The current solution to the leaver problem is to punish the leaver. 50sr is way more then a player would lose if they just stuck out the match so there is no incentive for them to leave. Also having the punishment be too high would punish players who disconnect because of an inforseeable event. I once had my power go out during a comp game. The 50sr loss was bad enough.
Right now that is the solution to The problem. The only other problem it creates is players occasionally losing SR because of an accidental disconnection. However the issue is symmetrical because it does discourage people from leaving intentionally as well as players occasionally get a free win because of a leaver on the enemy team.
I see no other solution other then the one that is currently in place.
And that’s the excuse to allow leavers in competitive environment? Also as you can see from my great session I had leavers in 2/4 games. Probability and randomness has no place in competitive. Ateast early leavers need huge panalties, like a ban for a hour plus -50SR for leaving their team, no matter if they won o lost.
That’s a terrible idea. Did you ever play against bots? They run blindesly to the point one after another, you can’t even really practice Widow on them…
One good thing about leaver penalty is that it ramps up in severity really fast if you do it a lot. So you may have hit the jackpot when it comes to leavers, but it won’t last that long.
I’ve heard 10% of matches have a leaver. While this isn’t great, it’s not the end of the world either.
Stop just talking and point out the problems it would bring. Also to your DC argument - if you get DC you can rejoin, if you can’t you probably shouldn’t play competitive for at least a hour to let your internet stabilize, therefore 1 hour ban is fair enough.
That’s why I stated the damage the bot takes needs to be scaled and the ult charge it gives enemies would need to be greatly reduced. So much so it could stand there tanking several clips of a reaper attack without dying and giving little ultimate charge. A hard mode bot with no changes would honestly roflstomp people in bronze in silver. The scaling would need to kick in after gold rank probably.
Oh lordy can I give you problems that come up with the inception of a backfill system in comp:
How would the backfill be handled?
What if a player of the MMR range of the player that left isn’t available. Do you allow people of higher or lower skill? Is that fair?
Does the match go on with the space not filled or do they pause the game? If so how long do you pause it for? Do you let players leave if it takes too long? If you let players leave at that point do you penalize them? How do you handle this so that matches don’t take forever? If nobody can be found how do you then handle that?
What if the player that joins again can’t play the role of the person that left?
What if the match maker puts a one trick pony into the match? How would players react to that?
What If the player that joins sees the game condition and tilts?
How do you handle the amount of SR that player gains loses? If you incentivize it by making it so they lose less or no SR if they lose? If that is the case what is keeping them from trolling the game with little threat of SR? How do the devs now handle the obvious increase in reports of people reporting the backfillers.
At one point do they no longer allow a backfill? If it’s the entire game how do they deal with player backlash when a player loads into a defeat screen.
Is the system going to give players a choice to backfill? If it’s involuntary would it cause player backlash? If it’s a choice what is the incentive? Can the incentives be exploited? How do they deal with these exploits? What if it can’t be determined if players are using the exploit intentionally? Do they abandon the system of it doesn’t work or is the exploit going to be fixable? Would fixing the exploit cause more exploits? What if they have to have no incentive and not enough players use it? If they pause the games during the event of a leaver and most don’t find a player would they just be elongating bad games for players? Would this cause even more frustrations?
I could go on but I’ll stop there because I think it gets the message across. I know it seems like a bunch of whataboutisms but these are all problems that the devs would have to solve just to develop the system.
My point was that if a solution to a problem requires this much problem solving just in its planning stage then it’s likely not going a very good solution. As I said you can’t solve a problem by making more problems. There is even a song about that and it starts with “There was once an old lady that swolled a fly…”
That’s just a lot of obvious questions to answer on the design level and some of them are already handled out. And to be frank it’s their job to do it…
Feels bad to write a wall of text and not deliver any real argument. Ok, one - you busted my thinking that backfilled shouldn’t lose SR, because he can troll/throw without any consequences.
To an extent, backfilling in other modes works because the outcome doesn’t really matter (at least not much). Additionally, in modes like Arcade and QP you can leave without penalty (unless you leave A LOT) if there are people trolling/game isn’t fun/any reason at all.
Please be my guest and prove me wrong by answering all of the problems so that there would be no further potential issues. You pushed the burden of proof on me and asked for me to give you problems that would come from using a backfill as a solution. I presented a list of said problems and now you have moved the goal post. Now I’m putting the burden of proof back on you.
Deferring to the devs saying that they should be solving these issues does not rebuke my point that it’s not a good solution because it creates too many problems. The devs are not magical beings that have infinite resources to solve every problem that is presented to them perfectly. They must find the most efficient solution possible and right now it is likely they feel the solution they have is currently adiquate even if players are unhappy with it because anything else would likely have the same result except it would cost them extra resources to develop.
If you are able to come up with a system that would work perfectly and everyone in this forum cannot find any issue with it then I will concede that it is a good idea.
As to your point as to backfilling on other modes. Backfilling works in those modes because they are causal modes and there is no rank on the line. The devs even dropped the win ratio values from all other modes other then competative. Players also complain about being put into games hair to see a loss screen even on quick play. When you add a loss of SR to that then players would not just feel frustrated they would also fee cheated. Backfill in competative would require many extra rules and conditions to allow it to feel fair.
If you add backfilling, it should only be rewarding to the person who did it {like a 5 SR if you lost, full if you won}. If you make backfilling have to potential to make me lose SR, mainly cause I got put into a game where the domination has already started , then I feel I’m being punished.
The main problem is this, there is a 2 minute grace period which is the longest two minutes of a game. It becomes almost impossible to win at times, and the enemy team can either be jerks and crushed you into the dust, but sometimes they are nice and just let you hang a bit with them.
Honestly, add an option to end a match once the 2 minutes is up, a quick vote saying we can;t do anything
Crazy idea: Let people backfill, but their SR/MMR will not be changed!
I would be happy to backfill for extra practice, or, to warm up. It would be a bit like QP, but at the same time I would also help out a team with a leaver.
Because leavers don’t get punished enough, so they keep doing it. Plus people have decided that leaving impacts their MMR less than losing, so they keep doing it.
There’s a hundread ways blizz could fix this by punishing those leavers, but they don’t seem to want to do it.