Low skill dps getting more value than aim dps?

Competitive Discussion
1

this game is a literal joke…i can play widow or ashe, mcree or dman near any hero that requires aim…or i can use reaper, genji or some other no aim hero and get infinitly more value from them…

is this game desing for the lowest common denominator…or does aim dependent heros only become playable at higher ranks? like i can just run yolo as a reaper doing truck loads of dmg with a truck load of sustain from every hit…wraith for a fresh reload…and teleport away if things get dicey. or i can dash rt click with genji and deflect for ez kills. but if i aim down sight as ashe…i do a set amount of dmg…my dynamites hitbox is paper thin and my shotgun sweeper lets me jump…whoopee do…it does pathetic amounts of dmg in cqb. and the distance i fly …reaper just harvest as health and wraiths back into my face.

gonna guess the next character design…you dont need to aim…every ability regenerates health…and every kill resets your cooldown…

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tbh genji is has a higher ceiling to master than those chars and you do need good aim and sense of depth

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3

“Skillfull” is a stretchable term in OW.

“But aiming well is skillfull”. Yes but also no.
Everything out of metal ranks is 10% mechanical skill and 90% using abilities at the right time.

Widow (outside of Masters+) is standing on the other side of the map and playing whack-a-mole. She doesnt inherently need movement; which is a skill people tend to skip out on just to “be good at aiming”. (Also the reason widow players are ult batteries for genji players; they cant move at all)

Cassidy has a 130dmg homing grenade with a 10 sec cooldown. Playing Cas in higher ranks is just getting in range to press E, leftclick once and get a free kill (if there is no support that is; or you hit a headshot).

“High skill characters” are inherently just tools, whereas heros like Reaper are full on brawlers, and i.e. Phara is a flyer… most people dont like flyers because they lack actual mechanical ability to fight back.

Genjis rightclick does (at “I can smell the enemy” distance) 101dmg if you’re lucky; his dash does 50dmg and needs depth perception otherwhise you get a free ticket back to spawn. He’s an “issue” at lower ranks because people have no object permanence. At higher ranks he’s exclusively a blade bot, trying to charge his blade as quick as possible, skinny dip a DD or a support and that’s that.

Reaper I do agree though his sustain is insane. Pair that with a moira or kiriko which both have get-out-of-jail-free card like his fade and it becomes a bit annoying. Upping it from 30 to 35% leech I dont entirely get behind; people didnt like reapers sustain before, so upping it was a bad call. (We’ve seen winston/Kiriko enabled reapers in OWL the past days and his power is inherent)

Ashe mind you is one of reapers hardest counters as her effective range is 30 meters to 150 headshot, whereas reapers effective range to do more than chip damage is 10 meters out.
Getting killed by reaper as ashe is just a sign of blatant bad positioning; another very underdeveloped skill in most ranks. (srsly you have 20 meters of leeway on the guy).

Hanzo is inherently not a very aimbased character (I’ll catch flak from hanzo mains for this). With how broken the hitboxes are atm, together with his famous tree-stump sized arrows; if you have an ounce of mechanical skill, hanzo will perform adequately well or above.
For the non believers in Jeffs magical hitreg

But impressions like this are why genji get’s nerfed again (Homie was good for 2 weeks out of 6 years in OW1 and probably will get the same treatment in OW2 because people refuse to adapt)

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Really doesn’t anymore. The right click is absurdly skill-deterrent, dash radius is just an entire screen wide at this point, he has infinite mobility and the best defensive in the entire game.

Skill requirement for Genji has been massively dumbed down… The skill in him was playing around Off-Tank peels and the only thing really that countered you in the first place, stuns. Now you have to play around none of them… Skill removed, now he’s just a right click spamming hero with insane mobility and a teamwipe ultimate (which, granted, still takes SOME skill, but his skill floor and ceiling are drastically different now).

Honestly the main “skill” issue heroes that get way way too much value are Pharah and Junkrat.

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Are you on console or PC? Console, yes definitely. If you’re on PC no so much as it’s much easier to aim for headshots with a mouse.

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I main Pharah with a lot of hours in gold and I think the main problem people have countering her is relying on hitscan to do it. I switch because of Winston faster than a good hitscan. I can dive a hit scan. Winston i have to wait for help.

And as Pharah i only need to kill the enemy dps once, and their team falls apart. They go double, ot no, pharah counter and get rolled by me or my tank while typing in match chat.

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Genji was playable for the first two weeks in OW1, up until people understood that pressing E usually ment the movement based character cannot move anymore.

From there on out genji was considered a throw pick. Now he is actually allowed to exist; players arent used to not countering genji without any form of hard CC.

Brig, Moira, Winston, Zarya, Reaper, Phara, Echo - I could go on about heros that directly or indirectly counter genji with minimal efford.

Also a side note - Moira can face-tank 4 nano-blade hits by holding rightclick.

Genji is a skinny-dip dive - He feeds off of disorganized teams. The second any type of teamplay is present a bad/average genji doesnt exist anymore. Two supports healing each other ? Genji doesnt do enough dmg (not even with his ult mind you); just to name one. (and I’m not even talking about the fun leech of an inspire bot people rage pick)

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lol for playing genji u need aim? are you genji main? how for genji u need more aim then cassidy or widow? remove right click from genji and we will see how good u are :smiley: btw noob friendly game atm.

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Again, Cassidy has a 130 dmg homing grenade. 90% of Cas players play off of that, not their peacekeeper; their gun is entirely secondary as Cas is an anti dive, not a brawler.

And whereas widow needs more aim than genji does, genji needs other skills to be successful; such as gamesense, map awareness, understanding and control of his high agility.

Hooking to highground on the other side of the map and spamming left-click onto a point or choke, until eventually you one-shot something isnt something to brag about either.

Moving your mouse around vs. moving, aiming, assesing a situation you’re currently actively involved in. Make your guess at what objectively takes more efford.

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wow really awesome post here… thanks for that!

I guess it is the variation still, in some games i get with sojurn 50-60 elims, the next player (doesnt matter enemie ore team) follows up with 25.

Yes, nice i can get so many kills, they need to wait, they need to regrp, they cant push atleast. but if your team is not possible to win a 5vs2 i can kill what i want, we are still loosing.

Would i play other champs and watch more what our team is missing the moment we would win more games. but i dont know, doesnt feel good tough selling the soul on low ranks…

11

Thanks for the compliment; rare thing <3

OW has a, if not inherent, Rock-Paper-Scissors mechanic.
It’s not an obivous one but it does exist.

Picking a character to make your teams odds against an enemy pick better, and evaluating that against your ult-charge and effectiveness etc. is a very mendatory and valuable skill.

Most people tend to ego-stick to one character (at that mostly widow, genji, ashe and Cas - As people see them as “high skill” and feel a need to proove they are better)

Keep the “I would rather help my team than get kills” attitude though, very valuable mindset.

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I guess you’re not good enough with “aim dps” then. I mean, a decent cowboy/widow/ashe can solo carry a team, especially at low levels where everyone runs out of cover.

Also, keep in mind OW2 is a team-based game with different heroes and classes. So its meant to have character for people who have poor aim or don’t like hitscan. The game is designed to have strong counters.

It seems on OW everyone stacks as one block, in choke points, so yeah Reaper sure takes advantage from that, especially at low ranks.

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In the words of our lord and saviour flats: “Metal ranks are just mechanical skill; and then you get hardstuck in diamond because you have no actual skill aside from aiming well”

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100% and thats the reason why i stuck with my main account in gold… It is just the mindsetup and the fact im maining sojurn.

Yea you know why? because i tough overwatch rates your performance and not only wins. but seems like it is only wins idk…

on the smurf i have 36 hours in comp and i am still master, ranking up and down between 5-3.

i remember one game, was very hard with sojurn… still from the papers more then 30% performance then my dps mate, but wasnt enough.

i swapped to reaper, killed the whole team 3 times in a row and we won.

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The matchmaker is poorly understood but there is some interesting patents about how it literaly scamms you out of ranking up.

“One-Tricking” is a bad habit though. Sojour is insanely powerful with her one-taps currently, but aside that brings no value to her team; she’s the most powerful brawler, but you need a sense of “when to kill what and where”.

That’s one of the skills people need; “what do I kill, in this very situation, to help my team the most”

But that wont come over night; good luck on your endevours though <3

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16

You are absolutely high.

Ok, listen up.

You named Brig, Moira, Winston, Zarya, Reaper - the ones in BOLD, Genji literally now counters… Moira, no good Genji would ever lose to, EVER, in OW1 nor 2. - Reaper does NOT counter you.

Brig, now, with no stun, Genji absolutely dunks on Brig.

If you’ve faced a Moira that facetanked 4 Nano Blade swings, you have absolutely terrible aim with your swings, as she dies to 1 swing.

Genji is busted, his skill floor has also shrunk a lot.

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It is kind of map dependend. On big maps with long LoS, you wouldnt run a close range hero like Reaper. Unless your aim straight up sucks.

18

yes true.

it is weird tough, if you main on a smurf account only those hereo the game only has data to that hereo and puts you way higher as on “alt” account.

my genji is bronze, that is for sure. xD

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Let’s do some quick fact checking.

Brig
Brig was always genjis hardcounter because her ENTIRE existance is to protect her other support, stay back and harrass the enemy team from range; and all that while having the second best group healing. There is a reason brig was the single most hated character in OW1. People boycotter her so much there was a gentlements agreement in diamond+ that people dont pick her out of sportsman ship.

She has no more stun, correct. But genji is most powerful when he is in his ~5m bubble of range. Brigs range is 30m with her whipshot and 20 with her leftclick.

Moira
Moiras damage doesnt work like any other source of dmg in the game. It’s also the only thing in the game that directly goes through genjis deflect, still dealing damage TROUGH his otherwhise all-mighty deflect.
Alongside that moira heals 24hp/s while dealing 50hp/s, by having arguably the least aim intensive form of damage in the game period.
This healing stacks with the healing she get’s from her bio-orb which can easily break 70-100hp/s. Genji’s nano-blade does 165 every ~0.8s;
Moira can facetank 80% of a nano-blade by holding rightclick. (She can also face-tank a Dva ult by dealing any type of damage to literaly anything around her)

Here is flats showing off just how busted her self sustain is if you dont believe me. - Quick edit: This is not her current kit; experimental state of moira that was actually broken.

Reaper
Reaper is the best brawl DD in the game. He has 35% self healing of dmg done - So he already wins against genjis damage by dealing ANY form of dmg himself.
The only thing that can kill a reaper (or at least beat out his sustain) is incredible burst damage. Something genji doesnt have. Genji does, at most 98dmg/s (his attack interval is >1s though).
Yes genji can deflect the reaper. But anyone dumb enough to shoot at a deflecting genji deserves what’s coming for them.
Reaper also has 2 get-out-of-jail free cards if he ever manages to loose against the genji.

You want an actually messed up character with high mobility, get out of jail free cards, stupidly high burst dps and insane value for the team ? Maybe look at one of the other shimadas instead.

20

Lmao widow just needs aim, thats not hard to do

1 Like