He also has Cowboy voicelines.
I’m confused as to why I’m quoted @_@
me too.
I misquoted somehow.
Ya’ll love to bash his ult.
His ult is no where NEAR useless. Not even close at that.
That’s not at all uncommon.
He doesn’t contribute much until the shields are down unless the enemy is rushing past them. I’m not asking for good shieldbreak, but something comparable to 76 would be nice. Right now it’s sometimes worth holding your fire so you still have ammo when the shields do break.
Considering his thicc hitbox and low mobility, this is a huge part of why he requires so much team resources to function. McCree loses out on a lot of the benefits that hitscans get from long range, and must put himself at high risk to get things done.
That sort of TTK isn’t uncommon, and it’s not just those two. Hog hits hard, Pharah, Echo, and Torb, are massively underrated rn, and really, just about any DPS has ways of reaching that fast of a TTK, because it’s more or less the standard for viability. The only thing going for him is that he’s hitscan, but unlike the other hitscans, he lacks range and the means to effectively control spacing, and the ranges he works best at aren’t particularly important on most maps right now. If it’s Ilios well all day long then sure, it’s pretty damn good, but that’s not most maps.
I’m partially basing my opinion off if I would prefer McCree’s primary to Ana’s rifle with or without scope, or Zen’s discord boosted left click, and right now, I’m not sure.
It’s so bad that people use it to reload, or finish off a badly wounded single kill. Like if I have to switch off McCree I’m probably not going to bother trying to use it first.
The opportunity cost of not charging a better ult is simply too high.
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Situational. So situational that ya’ll love to use that excuse a lot as if it’s some common everytime thing.
The situations in which it is good aren’t typically the ones where an ult is called for, and there are opportunity and time costs for getting into good positions to use it. One of the few notable exceptions are against valkyrie, but that largely works due to user error.
> soldier has 180dps
> me remembering how so many people claim sym melts with lvl 3 primary which has 180dps:
when he’s designed to have a stun to make him better at close range, and having his weapon be midranged given its fire rate + pin point spread + TTK, expanding his effective range doesn’t make sense. that’s not a problem for his weapon to solve, but rather his mobility which legit has room to do so.
if they want, they can take a page out of paladin’s book and make mccree more like cassie:
make his roll longer, faster, then give a passive where if the 1st shot after roll lands on an enemy (not a shield nor turret), reset cd or greatly reduce the active cd on roll and have an internal cd on this new passive so he’s not a literal shooting tumbleweed (which cassie was in paladins for a while).
- pharah’s rockets are 35m/s i.e. lower effective range and less consistent than mccree’s
- echo’s burst TTK is based on cds unlike mccree’s, ashe’s and widow’s whose are all on a primary with like 0.5~1s between each. same can be said for hog.
- torb’s is a less consistent arced projectile despite no falloff and lower fire rate.
mccree “reaches that fast of a TTK” a lot more easily and/or frequently than most heroes (hence why I didn’t simply just talk about dps; the fact it’s hitscan, 20m, pinpoint, etc. matters). again, the weapon fire isn’t the problem here.
Doesn’t one have spread?
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Legitimately unsure what you mean by this.
The thing is, his faster fire rate worked really well at the things he’s supposed to be good at, and works well with flashbang. Other DPS do better at range and there’s no need to step on their toes, but other DPS also do better at close range or with mobility. His supposed TTK advantage isn’t that relevant with regard to the former, and is supposed to give him a good matchup against the latter, and that got hit hard by the fire rate nerf.
The only things his current TTK is good against are the characters that easily get outranged or outmaneuvered, who are already bad for that reason, including McCree himself.
I don’t think it’s inherently any easier and expect it to be a personal preference thing, but even then, people rarely put themselves at risk unless they can reach that fast of a TTK. No one competent is going to hard commit on Pharah unless they have a decent shot at a double direct.
Meanwhile McCree’s advantages with regard to uptime are largely negated by how much damage he takes. In terms of uptime and ease of use, 76 is simply better, as he typically is in nearly all metas.
- pretty sure soldier spread isn’t going to factor much for shield break which is legit the context of the discussion there.
- even if soldier spread mattered for shield break (which it legit doesn’t), mccree has no spread too. so why would it make sense to make mccree have that level of dps for shield break and can do so without charging and in 20m unlike sym’s primary?
context matters.
You do realize mccree is not supposed to be a sniper right? Mid-close range is how he should be.
oh I thought we were just speaking damage numbers in general not just shield break. Well then… 
Holy hyperbole, Batman!
you want soldier-like dps on mccree primary for shield break despite that dps being literally sym lvl 3 dps which so many others coin as “shield breaker/melter” tier yet you were also saying “I’m not asking for good shield break”
so either you’re contradicting yourself, or sym’s primary is utter trash to not have good shield break despite all the team resources it requires. and either way, that’s showing 1 of my points.
I mean any buff that overtunes a hero will “work really well”…
and mccree is a hero designed to excel in close to midrange. buffing firerate which buffs him in all ranges isn’t the right place to help him. it’d be in the area of mobility and/or sustain. his burst is enough with better consistency than most other heroes as it is.
those problems you raised aren’t things to be solved with fire rate.
want to catch up to other heroes more? look at his mobility.
want to have better close range duel capability? look at sustain options or even a rework on his secondary which legit doesn’t get used much at all.
it is easier with mccree’s primary fire compared to many other heroes’ weapon fires. projectiles inherently are less consistent due to travel time which allows enemies to dodge shots irrespective of your aim e.g. people can at bare minimum guarantee only every receiving splash damage from sym 25m/s orbs at 15m away simply because of how slow they are.
many other hitscans have spread making them have an inherently rng factor that they can’t account for that hard limits their accuracy unlike.mccree’s pin point 0 spread. even if some has a hard limit of bulets before spread starts to allow burst fire to work around it, we’re still talking about firerate drop and dps drop to do so.
heroes that have such ttk tied to abilities are gatekept by cd which isn’t the case for mccree i.e. can try, re-try very often whereas the cd dependent ones have less chances to do and need to ensure they get it right when they can.
I just want to point out how before soldier’s buffs this year(?), mccree literally replaced soldier for a long time due to how good his primary fire was with burst and I’m pretty sure that was even before his firerate buff.
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How is stun an issue for you? I think you’re doing something wrong mate.
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I’m not one of them. I went back through my post history just to make sure I didn’t change my mind and forget about it, and I didn’t find any real opposition to the pre nerf 195 either. Today I’d buff something else, but if they kept it I don’t think I’d be particularly opposed to it.
I don’t think he’d be overtuned if the game had better balance at the time. He’s supposed to be an antiflanker and he’d need that fire rate if full dive became viable again, which it should.
It really doesn’t do much for long range.
If we’re significantly reworking McCree sure, anything is possible there, and I’m generally pro rework. I’m just saying that his primary as it is now has been proven inadequate time and time again.
It is easier against targets standing out in the open, which I suppose is common given the widow threads, but between use of range, cover, mobility, abilities, etc, I don’t think there’s that much of a difference. People are already incentivized to minimize that difference.
For 76 and Bastion, that typically comes into play at ranges where McCree isn’t doing well. For unscoped Ashe and Widow, I’m really not sure why it’s even there, but they do have easy means to mitigate it, which, again, works best at ranges where McCree isn’t doing well.
Depending on the target(s) and distance, I’d be hesitant to hard commit without flash to stop a rush. One could should also do similar things on other characters. Flankers waiting for CDs while sitting on high ground or off to the side is pretty basic gameplay.
He didn’t. Other than that stint when McCree and Mei were hard meta, McCree was never used in place of 76 for any long period of time. At best, there were times when both sucked for ages.
How is McCree lower skill then Junkrat? lol
His skill entry level is not high. straightforward, u shoot, u hit, u kill. I think the combination of some of his weaknesses make him a worse pick then others + in some cases Hanzo is a better pick as a close / midrange hero. Ashe is a better pick as a midrange hero with a 10x better Ultimate.
I think he is a midskill entry hero, with medium reward output. Ashe is so much better then him. Hanzo got oneshot but he is not consistent on longrange. U pick Widow as hitscan on longrange on most Widow maps. He is good at shield destroying, his flash got buffed and a skilled player can kill a closeranged hero with 2 headshots (maybe not if doomfist got more shields then 300hp 
), but alltogether, currently he is outperformed and his weak parts cripple him alot.
I play McCree and Junkrat, and honestly Junkrat is the easier one to get value from. Safer positioning, no damage fall-off, multiple zone control, and an ult that isn’t a game of Russian Roulette.
https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/Ryom-1460/
If you aren’t hitting consecutive shots with McCree, you are not providing value or enforcing space. Junkrat doesn’t have to even land a shot to provide value and enforce space.