The Mercy SR abuse and hide&rez is very well documented and you can find it very easy.
You and the rest have yet to provide evidence how she was supposedly a troll pick. Mercy has never been a troll pick, she has always been viable.
This person’s only proof of things seems to be that of OWL and super high tier play.
“Mercy was a must pick / really well used by the OWL Pros and T500 players therefor she was good” Even though if the pros could use mercy Pre 60 HPS just fine, doesn’t mean the largest part of the player base could. Or wanted to. No one in casual game play plays like the pros or even wants to. Most of them don’t even watch or pay attention to the pro scene.
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Mercy SR abuse was patched and dealt with before her rework and probably the only reason hide and rez became a big deal. Like I said earlier hide and rez was not effective. It didn’t win team fights. You can find quite a few videos and other posts explaining further on this.
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I could beat myself for not making screenshots showing the swearing in chat at me when playing mercy instead of lucio in 2016. But when I look up here in the thread there are some nice examples that show that people considered her beeing quite weak compared to lucio/zen at that time. If you can’t remember that I really doubt that you play since beta…
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Actually if you bothered to read what I’m saying, it’s literally the opposite. 
I stated that Mercy was not a must pick exactly in high tier of competitive play during 1-3 seasons. For the rest of the huge OW population, Mercy was the most picked support. Learn to read man… 
What I remember from those days is literally Mercy getting POTG every single game doing 5 rez both in QP and in comp. We actually had a game with my friends to take a shot every time the play of the game wasn’t Mercy, it was that rare.
Two star bronze border - I honestly have to question whether you were there.
you don’t get one thing. Winrate alone says nothing and must be taken into consideration combined with at least pickrate.
Based what you said, heroes like torbjorn or sym shoulda never be touched and considered a bad. Because they have winrate above “perfect” 50%.
Yes something around 50% is good but there are so many other factors for making a decision if a character is, or is not overpowered - despite its winrate because that, in case of a close-to-must-pick hero says nothing at it will stuck on a healthy 50%-ish.
Is the hero used much?
Is the hero so hard to play against and brings enough utility and helps to the team to the point you can only have equal chances if you use this hero too?
Do you hear “hey can we have insert the hero name?” often?
Does the hero work despite of the comp?
These any many other questions are important when aswering a question of if the hero is OP. NOT WINRATE ALONE.
Now maybe I’m too hyped up on my coffee this morning but you were saying pretty opposite things of that earlier. Saying that 1-3 Seasons of mercy worked fine in high tier play / OWL / t500 / Seagull. And maybe that was the case for HIGH TIER play. So why you’re back tracking and saying that mercy WAS bad in high tier play during seasons 1-3, I dunno.
Nope, I joined 6 weeks after release and stopped playing every evening in september 2016 because people were screaming at everyone, were toxic as **** and the general attitude. I played in every season, tried every patch and every event. I’m a silver player and have no shame admitting this. That means the time that I remember best is the time around season 1-2 and before that. And I remember Mercy-POTGs as well. How many times did this rez decide the game? Did you climb by just using your ulti? Were that the high-impact-moments from your games? In my games these situations rarely decided anything. They looked nice but that was that. And these POTGs happened maybe every 5th game or so? EVERY GAME is just not true, at least not for me.
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I’m not backtracking anywhere, you are just taking apart statements out of context.
My original statement:
Subsequent things I have said:
- Mass rez was unhealthy.
- Hide and rez works in top 500.
- Mercy has always been a must pick and the highest picked support for 12 seasons among the general population of OW.
- Mercy has not been a top pick only for 1-2 seasons among the highest competitive tier.
None of these statements contradict each other and are applied to specific context. Nice try though, you see I’m very careful with what I say and very consistent and methodological. Also you people have a tendency to pluck a sentence out of my overall context and “defeat” it.
So you are completely out of touch. Okay, I already knew that but nice of you to admit.
No. See, I was never part of the Ana convo. I never took part in that. But clearly you forget. This conversation has become back and forth spammy banter and way off topic and completely non constructive at this point, So I’ll just be done. Seeing as you ignored my actual points about Hide and Rez and HPS earlier.
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Knew that would be the argument… I’m out of touch for not playing every evening. I’m out of touch just because I play maybe 5 hours a week? Maybe I don’t play 24/7 and therefor don’t have as much insight as any Top500 or OWL player… that’s right. But when arguments come like “they decided it was unhealthy and they changed her because of that so they must have data to back this up”… I’m sorry. This is no argument for me, this is an opinion. And to say “your argument is invalid” (or something similar to that) over and over again is no good argument either. To me it seems that you want to make your arguments true by “force” or by ignoring other arguments you can’t refute.
PS: Oh and even I can be “effective” with ana on my rank even without having the skills to master her anytime soon. You don’t have to be necessarily good with any hero to be effective.
Holy crap. I think it’s the first time I’ve seen someone take on the rabid Mercy mains in an argument and win. You sir must have nerves of steel and the patience of a saint. I tip my hat to you.
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I mean, Symmetra had a super high winrate as well before her rework, but her pickrate was abysmal. I think pickrates are better reflections of stats because only the best people were playing Symmetra (hence the low pickrate, but high winrate), and the same could kind of be said about Ana’s stats. Her pickrates were really low for a healer, but she had higher winrates only in a high rank because she takes a lot of skill to get reward from because the best people were playing Ana.
Ana SHOULD have better stats than Mercy in GM, I don’t know why it’s such a big deal that she does (which, by the way, Ana didn’t have better stats for over a year).
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I’m sorry but the overwhelming evidence is stacked against you. I guess you will have to prove that this opinion (held by a sizable population of the OW community, not just the forums, the pro players and the devs themselves) doesn’t have any merit. Otherwise it’s just anecdotal evidence of a player that doesn’t even play that much and is in one of the lowest competitive tiers (this isn’t to rank-shame you, it’s an observation relevant to discussion when talking about balance).
I have refuted any and all of their arguments. Meanwhile have yet to see anyone refute my basic and fundamental argument, which is:
Thank you. It’s actually not very hard once you understand their tactics and modus operandi:
- They will say whatever fits their narrative (Mercy is OP, Mercy is UP, Mercy is not fun) and sometimes they will claim things that are mutually-exclusive. It’s just important to keep track of what they claim and expose their false narrative.
- They will fall back to the fun argument and claim it is relevant because it’s not something that can be actually debated. It’s important to remind that fun is subjective and irrelevant when balance is discussed.
- When that fails they will attempt character assassination by calling you a “Mercy hater” “Oppressor” or anything they can perceive as slight to try and put this spin on you and invalidate your points by invalidating you as a person.
- If that fails, they will point you to a Titanum thread - a dude who hasn’t played the game for an year (admits it), doesn’t think mechanical skill is relevant to balance at all (admits it) and has a massively bad idea on how to make Mercy OP (Mass rez back + Burst Aoe 150 heal for Mercy and alive teammates on top of bringing dead people alive. It’s really a mystery how anyone listens to him and thinks this is a good idea).
Thanks for the acknowledgement though, I appreciate it. 
Check this thread for more:
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For one thing, they said very high ELO, which is t500 and pro settings, not necessarily GM, which plays differently everytime you go up 100 SR.
Two, Mercy was meta for over a year and her comps were skilless, and completely not fun to play around. Ana Lucio comps, however, define skill AND can be outplayed without wanting to rip your teeth out one by one.
Welcomed change.
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Larger your N, the more significant even small differences become.
No offense, but have ever even taken a class on stats and hypothesis testing?
Just want to quote the actual patch notes from Mercy’s rework. “It was frustrating to play against”. That’s based off of feelings, not statistics.
Source, if you want to check.
Ok, Mercy doesn’t need mechanical skill. Ana requires mechanical skill. Mercy is still allowed to be picked just as often as Ana, because they should fill seperate niches. Mercy is a dedicated healer with consistent healing (which should be strong), while Ana is a bursty healing sniper with utility. Therefore, they should each be picked when the situation calls for it. Not, “just pick Ana because she’s better due to the fact that she has to aim”.
You could have left it at tactics, and I’d get the gist.
You know, there are loads of different people who all share unique opinions. Also, I’ve never seen a Mercy main call Mercy OP recently.
It can, because that was the entire reason Blizzard reworked her (as shown by my quote of the patch notes).
A very good thread actually.
LOL.
Quit with the “I can aim so I should be rewarded for muh mad skillz” please.
It’s funny, because you conveniently missed out the nerfs to Mass Rez that Titanium suggested to go along with the buffs.
Put your tinfoil hats on girls.
I love how you say that Mercy mains have an “agenda”. Get real please.
For someone so obsessed with statistics, you sure don’t have many (if at all) to back up your claims.
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LMAO. I’m sure the devs do balance based on feelings.
That’s the politically correct statement they are forced to use. You never heard of PR?
This isn’t my argument at all. Re-read my argument because you clearly don’t understand it.
I can speak however I want mate, if you don’t like it that sounds like a “you” problem to me 
Then you need to re-read all the threads where Mercy reverts/reworkers claimed Mercy is gonna be OP because they are nerfing the wrong thing. And how this nerf solves nothing and Mercy is gonna be strong again in one month. Now they started to sing a new song cause it doesn’t fit the narrative.
Again, read above comment. PR and politically correct statements.
Yeah, if you want a guide on how to make Mercy mind-mindbogglingly OP.
Never claim this, learn to read.
Mass rez is an inherently bad and unhealthy mechanic. Again, let me refresh your memory:
It’s so funny how you Reverts always use the same phrase every time someone’s onto you.
Not Mercy mains, it’s a specific sub-group of Mercy mains that communicate on discord and pursue their revert/rework agenda by up-voting their threads and false-reporting anything that doesn’t agree with what they say.
Otherwise threads like this, wouldn’t exist:
Oh, there’s plenty of evidence my friend. You just choose to ignore it and you take my points out of context to “defeat” them or flat out make arguments up that I have never said. Like I said, mass rez doesn’t exist in the game anymore - by virtue of not existing, that’s evidence enough. A large portion of the community deemed to be unhealthy, the Pros and the Devs. The SR abuse is real and documented. And so on and so forth. Nice try but you need some reading comprehension first as you have yet to address my very original argument in this thread.
Hey there. I have a degree in it.
So let me ask you: if you assume that Blizzard will lie about their reasons for patching a character for the purposes of PR, then how can you ever be sure what the actual reason is?
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I also have a degree in it, and I must say, at this point it makes sense for them to just restate what they’ve already said about it, and admit the mistakes they made with Mercy. People appreciate transparency.
It’s obvious that Mass Resurrect as an Ultimate was an unhealthy ability for a game like Overwatch, which is why it is gone. It never should have been in the game to start with, which is what they need to admit was the first mistake they made. Think about it, we would have never seen this rollercoaster of events with Mercy had Mass Resurrect just never been in the game to start with.
They obviously have their reasons for it outside of being an unhealthy mechanic, and I recall them stating that the way people were using Mas Resurrect was not what it was intended for the ability, which was yet another reason it was tossed out. Even if 90% of the players weren’t doing Hide N’ Rez, the other 10% were which was enough for Blizzard to chop it because that’s not what they intended for it.
But again, I do think it’s wise to make another statement about the changes in a more direct manner, and explain it better than: not fun, unhealthy, not what we intended, etc. that way we can put this thing to rest.
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