Forget about these winrates on overbuff. That website is garbage now since 90 % of the player base has private profiles.
I have yet to see evidence of this. 
Actual real states of this were linked in this thread only a few hours ago. Either you didn’t read it, or are ignoring it because you refuse to admit that 50 HPS is just too little.
Or are trolling. Who knows.
Are you talking about this?
https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2016-08-11-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-don-t-panic
I already addressed that point, either you didn’t read it or are ignoring it.
This data was taken from the leagues at the time, check the source. I’ve already stated that there was a very brief and short period of time 1-2 seasons in which Mercy wasn’t a must/top pic only among the highest competitive tiers. The same applies to dive. For the huge amount of OW population however, Mercy has been a must pick for the last 12 seasons and an absolute must pick in OWL for the last 7 months.
Nice try, poor effort. 
“unhealthy for the game” is based on what? Feelings?
If developer and pros agreed that it was unhealthy for the game… has data ever been presented? Has there ever been told that this was based on data? I can’t remember. Please tell me if I’m wrong. Were was the data here? And don’t tell me “They must have some, otherwise they wouldn’t have reworked her”. Did you actually see any data? What proof do you have that they had data? You have none? Then you just trust them? That means your opinion is based on feelings???
And just because you were able to use her well and never had a problem with mercy before her buffs in 1.0 didn’t make her no troll pick. I can use torb in silver quite well and he is a troll pick too…
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The Mercy SR abuse and hide&rez is very well documented and you can find it very easy.
You and the rest have yet to provide evidence how she was supposedly a troll pick. Mercy has never been a troll pick, she has always been viable.
This person’s only proof of things seems to be that of OWL and super high tier play.
“Mercy was a must pick / really well used by the OWL Pros and T500 players therefor she was good” Even though if the pros could use mercy Pre 60 HPS just fine, doesn’t mean the largest part of the player base could. Or wanted to. No one in casual game play plays like the pros or even wants to. Most of them don’t even watch or pay attention to the pro scene.
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Mercy SR abuse was patched and dealt with before her rework and probably the only reason hide and rez became a big deal. Like I said earlier hide and rez was not effective. It didn’t win team fights. You can find quite a few videos and other posts explaining further on this.
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I could beat myself for not making screenshots showing the swearing in chat at me when playing mercy instead of lucio in 2016. But when I look up here in the thread there are some nice examples that show that people considered her beeing quite weak compared to lucio/zen at that time. If you can’t remember that I really doubt that you play since beta…
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Actually if you bothered to read what I’m saying, it’s literally the opposite. I stated that Mercy was not a must pick exactly in high tier of competitive play during 1-3 seasons. For the rest of the huge OW population, Mercy was the most picked support. Learn to read man… 
What I remember from those days is literally Mercy getting POTG every single game doing 5 rez both in QP and in comp. We actually had a game with my friends to take a shot every time the play of the game wasn’t Mercy, it was that rare.
Two star bronze border - I honestly have to question whether you were there.
you don’t get one thing. Winrate alone says nothing and must be taken into consideration combined with at least pickrate.
Based what you said, heroes like torbjorn or sym shoulda never be touched and considered a bad. Because they have winrate above “perfect” 50%.
Yes something around 50% is good but there are so many other factors for making a decision if a character is, or is not overpowered - despite its winrate because that, in case of a close-to-must-pick hero says nothing at it will stuck on a healthy 50%-ish.
Is the hero used much?
Is the hero so hard to play against and brings enough utility and helps to the team to the point you can only have equal chances if you use this hero too?
Do you hear “hey can we have insert the hero name?” often?
Does the hero work despite of the comp?
These any many other questions are important when aswering a question of if the hero is OP. NOT WINRATE ALONE.
Now maybe I’m too hyped up on my coffee this morning but you were saying pretty opposite things of that earlier. Saying that 1-3 Seasons of mercy worked fine in high tier play / OWL / t500 / Seagull. And maybe that was the case for HIGH TIER play. So why you’re back tracking and saying that mercy WAS bad in high tier play during seasons 1-3, I dunno.
Nope, I joined 6 weeks after release and stopped playing every evening in september 2016 because people were screaming at everyone, were toxic as **** and the general attitude. I played in every season, tried every patch and every event. I’m a silver player and have no shame admitting this. That means the time that I remember best is the time around season 1-2 and before that. And I remember Mercy-POTGs as well. How many times did this rez decide the game? Did you climb by just using your ulti? Were that the high-impact-moments from your games? In my games these situations rarely decided anything. They looked nice but that was that. And these POTGs happened maybe every 5th game or so? EVERY GAME is just not true, at least not for me.
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I’m not backtracking anywhere, you are just taking apart statements out of context.
My original statement:
Subsequent things I have said:
- Mass rez was unhealthy.
- Hide and rez works in top 500.
- Mercy has always been a must pick and the highest picked support for 12 seasons among the general population of OW.
- Mercy has not been a top pick only for 1-2 seasons among the highest competitive tier.
None of these statements contradict each other and are applied to specific context. Nice try though, you see I’m very careful with what I say and very consistent and methodological. Also you people have a tendency to pluck a sentence out of my overall context and “defeat” it.
So you are completely out of touch. Okay, I already knew that but nice of you to admit.
No. See, I was never part of the Ana convo. I never took part in that. But clearly you forget. This conversation has become back and forth spammy banter and way off topic and completely non constructive at this point, So I’ll just be done. Seeing as you ignored my actual points about Hide and Rez and HPS earlier.
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Knew that would be the argument… I’m out of touch for not playing every evening. I’m out of touch just because I play maybe 5 hours a week? Maybe I don’t play 24/7 and therefor don’t have as much insight as any Top500 or OWL player… that’s right. But when arguments come like “they decided it was unhealthy and they changed her because of that so they must have data to back this up”… I’m sorry. This is no argument for me, this is an opinion. And to say “your argument is invalid” (or something similar to that) over and over again is no good argument either. To me it seems that you want to make your arguments true by “force” or by ignoring other arguments you can’t refute.
PS: Oh and even I can be “effective” with ana on my rank even without having the skills to master her anytime soon. You don’t have to be necessarily good with any hero to be effective.
Holy crap. I think it’s the first time I’ve seen someone take on the rabid Mercy mains in an argument and win. You sir must have nerves of steel and the patience of a saint. I tip my hat to you.
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I mean, Symmetra had a super high winrate as well before her rework, but her pickrate was abysmal. I think pickrates are better reflections of stats because only the best people were playing Symmetra (hence the low pickrate, but high winrate), and the same could kind of be said about Ana’s stats. Her pickrates were really low for a healer, but she had higher winrates only in a high rank because she takes a lot of skill to get reward from because the best people were playing Ana.
Ana SHOULD have better stats than Mercy in GM, I don’t know why it’s such a big deal that she does (which, by the way, Ana didn’t have better stats for over a year).
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I’m sorry but the overwhelming evidence is stacked against you. I guess you will have to prove that this opinion (held by a sizable population of the OW community, not just the forums, the pro players and the devs themselves) doesn’t have any merit. Otherwise it’s just anecdotal evidence of a player that doesn’t even play that much and is in one of the lowest competitive tiers (this isn’t to rank-shame you, it’s an observation relevant to discussion when talking about balance).
I have refuted any and all of their arguments. Meanwhile have yet to see anyone refute my basic and fundamental argument, which is:
Thank you. It’s actually not very hard once you understand their tactics and modus operandi:
- They will say whatever fits their narrative (Mercy is OP, Mercy is UP, Mercy is not fun) and sometimes they will claim things that are mutually-exclusive. It’s just important to keep track of what they claim and expose their false narrative.
- They will fall back to the fun argument and claim it is relevant because it’s not something that can be actually debated. It’s important to remind that fun is subjective and irrelevant when balance is discussed.
- When that fails they will attempt character assassination by calling you a “Mercy hater” “Oppressor” or anything they can perceive as slight to try and put this spin on you and invalidate your points by invalidating you as a person.
- If that fails, they will point you to a Titanum thread - a dude who hasn’t played the game for an year (admits it), doesn’t think mechanical skill is relevant to balance at all (admits it) and has a massively bad idea on how to make Mercy OP (Mass rez back + Burst Aoe 150 heal for Mercy and alive teammates on top of bringing dead people alive. It’s really a mystery how anyone listens to him and thinks this is a good idea).
Thanks for the acknowledgement though, I appreciate it. 
Check this thread for more:
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For one thing, they said very high ELO, which is t500 and pro settings, not necessarily GM, which plays differently everytime you go up 100 SR.
Two, Mercy was meta for over a year and her comps were skilless, and completely not fun to play around. Ana Lucio comps, however, define skill AND can be outplayed without wanting to rip your teeth out one by one.
Welcomed change.
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