Does his damage feel pretty lacklustre to anyone else?
It feels like it should have a bit more…oomph. I dunno if he needs more ammo, less spread, or just slightly more damage or what.
1 Like
Both damage and heals are lackluster because of all his other abilities.
2 Likes
It’s similar to Mercy’s DPS except you need to reload more often, it has crazy spread, and the hitbox isn’t nearly as generous.
1 Like
His power budget was bankrupted for two mobility options (petal + dash), leaving scraps for his healing, damage, and ultimate.
1 Like
Yeah some people are raving over him and potential, since i guess any healer can hit healing numbers as long as the targets are not dying and you have time to top up dmg.
I think in terms of raw healing and dmg numbers though.
Lifeweaver does about i think 70 with reload dps, and like 110 firing dps. That can seem pretty good for the seconds he’s firing, but overall with reload it’s not too strong and it’s clunky.
For comparison for support dps, i think the general healer dps rows tend to go something like:
o Zenyatta: 120 fast and chunky Projectile dps, 150 dps with discord orb, [105 dps w/reload]. 30 hps
o Baptise: 110 Hitscan dps, 55-77 hps, [100 dps and 45-70 hp/s w/reload]
o Ana: Something like 94 hps or dps, (83 w/reload). A slow projectile that can turn into hitscan scoped in while being able to anti/nade for +50% more healing, for 140 hp/s /anti for 4s.
o Mercy: 100 slow projectile dps, 90 w/reload. 55 hp/s / 30% dmg boost
o Kiriko: Despite the meaty headshots, she only does like 70 bodyshot dps (iffy projectile), and her 210 headshot dps is par. But as we know, chunky one shot = BOOM.
o Brig: 59 melee aoe? dps, but she can shield bash + flail for 50+70 = 120 burst dmg so her ttk can be 1.5s vs moira’s 4s.
Think she does like 15 aoe hp/s for 5s whenever she hits someone and has 125 hp repair packs every 6s. So kinda like a 375 hp / 18s char?
o Moira: 50 dps + 20 hps self. 70 aoe hps, 60% reaper sized attach box
o Lifeweaver: 110 firing dps, 70 w/reload, OR 35-65 hp/s + reloading. He has to pick one, and while on paper his healing is fair, it feels like with travel time and human reactions, it seems to often take 1.5-2s to deliver a 65 hp blossom.
Then a -10% reload tax… and you end up with Zenyatta: 120 fast and chunky Projectile dps, 150 dps with discord orb, [105 dps w/reload]
So yeah, lifeweaver has nice looking stats on paper, and a 110 firing dps is nothing to shrug at, but 70 dps w/reload is acttually pretty awful for a healer who has to pick one.
Baptise can do his simultaneous 110 dps/55-77 aoe hp/s technically burst firing with headshot and window capable hitscan fire.
While Lifebringer is choosing ONE at a time of 70 sustained dps Or what feels like 30-40 hp/s with travel time.
As we all know, baptise has some crazy paper stats but isn’t often that high meta in practice since about the only people who can do tick perfect tracking on two targets are near aimbots, and not even top 500 baptises seem to find tracking coherant without focusing 1 target (enemy or ally) at a time.
But it does kinda seem kinda off that lifeweaver has to spend like 1-2s charging a 65 health projectile or firing some needles that baptise, a already middle row child can do on one click.
I think he pays too much tax (and keybind space) for the life pull and flower, but tbh outside of having people elevatored midfight or pulled away, it’s really hard to rate a utility like this before we’ve had times to find all the spots.
His raw healing and dmg numbers are definitely a lot weaker than a already known middle child Baptise though. He does like half as much sustained while also only doing one at a time, while slowing himself to headshots.
And immortality field can arguably save you from more ults(Junkrat, dva, headshots, maybe shatter) than flower(A orisa standing still for 5s?) . idk what’s going on here.
1 Like
damage is alright just requires a little tracking. its actually not bad.
1 Like
Your Bapt dps number is wrong unless you assume a 100% crit rate. If you got the number from the Wiki, it uses a 100% crit rate to calculate his dps; it doesn’t do this for any other character that I have ever looked at, just Bapt.
Bapt does a 3 bullet burst with 12.5 base damage per bullet at a rate of 0.588 seconds per burst. So 3 * 12.5 / 0.588 is 63.78 dps for landing all body shots. With a 33% crit rate it is 85 dps, and 106 dps with a 66% crit rate. For most people Bapt will probably do 80-90 dps.
His desgn is healing first and damage as an alternative option. Currently they overvalued his healing and it sucks. The damage is not there, because he is not Bap, Zen, Ana or other heroes. He should be closer to Mercy honestly.
Think maybe i went into a bit o detail above, but yeah. The fire ain’t bad. The sustained is kinda low but the projectile speed is pretty good.
Most healers seem to generally deal between the 100-110 firing dps range with 50-70 hp/s active healing.
Kiriko and Lifeweaver both have the lower aimed and projectile dpses at 70 sustained dps for bodyshotting, but kiriko has 120 hp chunks on headshots and great healing/tp/suzu/ult. Lifeweaver can swap reload when it’s reload time, but his firing dps is good while his w/reload dps is iffy.
Zenyatta stands out as 120-150 discord dps with 30 hp/s passive healing, but is more of a dps/+25% anti tank discord support.
They can all do quite decent, paper dps isn’t everything as mercy vs one shot hanzo both have the same paper 100 dps.
Hanzo just doing 200 dmg per 2s means the person is dead or chunky spaghetti if he hits. Healing ignored. Mercy is just doing a maybe 40 dps practical tickle beam that easily gets outhealed and her killed. (Unless the target is a stationary/distracted sniper)
[As for Baptise for jath on the user above. Not sure where you’re getting your numbers, but Baptise does 3x 25 dmg every 0.6s base. His headshot dmg is 3x 50 =150. His windowed headshot dmg is 3x 100 = 300 dmg. Not sure if you’re using a old one. )
But yeah that is fair that most people are gonna be missing their shots or falloff at place. It seems like Bap and Mccree have their falloffs a lot better than they used to be though, they feel quite better at far range than they used to be many ow1 patches for fall off.
Maybe ur looking at a far range target. The practice range i use has handy dmg trackers which makes it super convenient for checking kill points, but yeah paper vs practicality is for sure not everything haha. The chunkier the dps, the more easier it is for a sudden 120-140 hp hit to knock a 140/200 target out the game!
I think that is by design, it is really there to get ult charge, which it absolutely does in spades. It is crazy how fast you can get ult with him using it.
But actually killing targets? it is a bit Meh at that.
No, Bap does 25 damage per bullet (bodyshot). Head into the practice range and you’ll see it takes exactly two bursts to murder Tracer.
If anyone wants to see Bap’s DPS with their own eyes, try this Workshop code: XMJ3H
Press F to start the timer just as you start shooting into Redhog’s gut. After ten seconds it’ll give you the DPS in the top left corner. I get 127.5 DPS as Bap.
Oh yeah mb, baptise is actually a 127 dps firing, 110 dps w/reloading, got too used to the firing rates being around 100 and just hitscan being so good for headshotting/reliability with aim i just skimmed past that haha.
Most dps’s primary fires are actually around like the 100-120 dps range too, so i guess i just assumed. Still though when people talk about support/dps gaps, usually dps have a lot of stuff to secure kills like McOneshots 70 dmg bodyshots + nades or very good recoil patterns.
Baptise does have some really good numbers for real, but probably one of the worst anti headshot recoil patterns in the game while s76 had his toned down. But to be fair, if you could consistently land it, a support being able to poop out 150-300 dmg base or window eliminations every 0.6s could just be broken.
I guess it’s just more of a show how although we already have a dps/healer support that does better numbers than lifeweaver and even many dps heros, it’s often ana at high / diamond/Grandmaster+ ranks getting the top bars just for how powerful anti is, and at low ranks, moira just due to how easy and reliable her approx reaper sized lockbox tends to be.
Baptise tends to shine out as a middle child who already poops out some very incredible numbers. He can do as much dps as a dps or MORE than some, (127 firing, 110 w/reload, + 55-77 AoE healing simultaneously). he can also immortality field to prevent team wipe ults or drop it behind a corner and then revitalizing burst for another 150 hp every 15s.
And get “3 lives” in a duel (1x bar, immortality field. + Regenative burst, + yolo jump etc)
Yet all that stuff on paper just gets him a mid tier on practice and winrate. Since despite having tons of potential. It’s far easier to track ONE target accurately, than spin around snap healing ally + shooting enemy. In a lot of cases, whoever wins the kill first, whether 10% faster or not is favored.
I think he’s still good, but yeah. Lifeweaver isn’t bad, but anyone picking lifeweaver for dps numbers or hp/s numbers are kinda missing that baptise already can do 2x more and is just seen as a mid end pick. The utility for sure is hard to rate, and he feels sastifying to fire and better than mercy glock to defend with.
But it’s really quite apparent that lifeweaver’s healing feels like it’s off for a dedicated healer, and his 70ish sustained dps is one of the lowest without getting into the easier to land 60-50 dps brigette/moira categories.
Though, Moira comes with a 200 dmg/300 hp orb + fade and self heal.
Brigette can turn into a +120 dmg shield bash flail combo anytime so her lower dps is just a counter until she might combo kill.
It’s probably way too early to figure out a tier, but if we have a middle end pick already doing 1.5-3x more just to end up in the middle row picks. What does Lifeweaver’s flower offer that makes it worth more utility tax than a immortality field?
I guess the healing ult is kinda nice though. but for a dps argument, zenyatta still offers all that meaty 120-150 support dps + discord and a passive heal and a 300 hp/s ult to fight vs tree of life. It does seem like the life grip is pretty neat and the flower platforms are interesting.
But it does really seem like lifeweaver’s is kinda hard to rate, but his current numbers for dps/hps definitely seem like they have drawbacks for no few direct upsides. atm
(Of course, one number tune later, and then yeah, it'd be easy to make him offer more or less dps+healing utility with just a few tweaks later. Number changes always seem to be the easiest to change anyways, and it seems like he has a diverse kit. The current dps/healing numbers are just kinda lacking. )
2 Likes
His damage is pretty good up close but the spread is massive.