yeah but the fact that people went for THAT depiction is weird. like you can say because heās younger so more innocent but alot of people donāt portray reaper or ana like that so its kinda strange.
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āClueless idealistic farmboyā trope. He was described as āsalt of the Earthā in very first lore bits we got. So one can argue itās canon. As opposed to Gabe so was immediately established as someone more assertive, a āsenior officerā, etc.
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I feel like a lot of writers and fanartists really, really, REALLY try their damned hardest not to write very stereotypically masculine, serious men, whether itās because they donāt like them or feel they are boring and overrepresented. They have to go out of their way to soften them up one way or another, sometimes it works, often times it is just not either canon-compliant or feels a bit transparent, and cringy to boot.
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Itās what Mechavomit said, but Iāll also be that person who will say thereās a lot of stereotypes going on in fandoms. Specifically racial stereotypes. Itās fairly obvious with interracial ships.
Jack tends to fall into a āshy and pure white guyā and Gabe is the āassertive aggressive man of colour.ā Which is yikes. As Mechavomit said, thereās some canon explanation for this, but people usually go out of their way to exaggerate these points and offer no nuance beside them so I just have to not touch some content from creators that act like this. Jackās idealism and Gabeās experience can be portrayed without making the content feel vaguely racist.
Pharmercy and mchanzo/mcgenji suffer from the same thing, and Iām pretty sure others as well, theyāre just not as popular so I donāt see as much stuff about it.
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As a bi woman, I think it would be nice to eventually have a character who falls on the āspectrumā. Someone who isnāt gay/lesbian, but isnāt straight, either.
Widowmaker and Brigitte give me lots of bi vibes. Imo it would be nice to see one of them as examples of non-straight feminine women.
Btw I really like that Soldier is gay. I know people associate him with stereotypes, but Iāve never seen him as particularly straight.
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how would you reveal them as bi?
Welcome to our thread and to the forum! 
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someone made a thread to ālet people ship what they wantā because theyāre mad people donāt want people shipping jack with women. and like its kinda sad people think āletting people ship what they wantā is more important than gay representation.
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Yeah, I saw that. Considered replying to explain why the LGBT community might be upset over people seeing one (1) gay man rep and turning a blind eye to it, but decided it wouldnāt be worth the effort.
Obviously, this isnāt such a huge boogeyman, but itās also pretty annoying that this is the moment where weāre apparently removing ādouble standards.ā I mean, first remove the double standard of gay rep being 1% and straight rep being 99% and then we can talk. When weāre both equal, then you can HC a singular gay character as straight. Until then, itās just kinda crappy.
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I honestly like the fandom padding people gave them. With more lore coming out, I see almost no āvaguely racistā boring stereotypey stuff anymore.
While young Jack is still clueless and idealistic, young Gabe is sarcastic and funny. I personally donāt associate those with stereotypes at all.
Yeah, to be fair, fandom content has gotten largely better over time. All the new details weāve learned helped and also people learned how to avoid harmful stereotypes.
I see it far less these days in comparison. Iām pretty sure fandom criticism helped, which showcases how important it is to not let bad things slide just because itās fandom content and not professional content. Of course, criticism only works if itās delivered properly. Yelling at people anonymously and telling them to kill themselves over a fanfic isnāt exactly something that helps.
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I might be a bit of a devilās advocate but I do enjoy seeing men being vulnerable/soft when appropriate. Mostly because I donāt always enjoy toxic masculine depictions. Thatās how I am with Hanzo. He is stubborn and all that but Iād love to see him develop healthier relationships and eventually reconcile with Genji.
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oh noone saying thats bad. weāre just saying using it with jack specifically is weird
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Same! I enjoy interpreting Hanzoās future in a way where he learns how to relax and that not being constantly alert and ready is okay. He really needs some peace in his life and pushing him into a toxic masculine personality is doing a disservice to him as a character.
Even with Hanzo though, people often exaggerate too much to the point where I canāt look at it in any way except seeing stereotypes. Itās all a matter of presentation and how well something is written. Sometimes I canāt ignore the patterns I see and with Hanzo, thereās plenty of them.
As with anything, if a story aims to have impact, it has to present characters as people and it has to give them an opportunity to breathe and change. Depicting Hanzo as someone who embraces vulnerability and softness in some situations is amazing if we can also see him in his usual self. In that case, giving him those moments where he can be different has meaning. You can see how situations change him in a realistic way and it means more. Thatās probably my favourite thing I can see in a fanfic; when someone as guarded and dismissive as him eventually learns how to change and be more accepting of company and soft.
What I donāt like is when thereās nothing to contrast it. When someone just warps him so much into a person he really isnāt and never shows any other aspect of him. With Hanzo it goes into both extremes: heās either a fragile shy inexperienced doll or heās a cruel abusive bastard. I donāt know whatās up with Hanzo specifically that triggers these ideas in writing, but I donāt like it. Itās not only bad writing, itās lowkey offensive. Itās like some people have no capacity of writing a normal human being who behaves differently based on experiences, situations and emotions and never changes.
The point is, writing requires nuance and care that a lot of people donāt understand. Writing is hard and many donāt seem to recognise that.
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Oh yeah I definitely agree. Itās good to have that kind of balance so heās more well-rounded.
Thatās probably my favourite thing I can see in a fanfic; when someone as guarded and dismissive as him eventually learns how to change and be more accepting of company and soft.
I love seeing stuff like this.
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Iād say just develop the story naturally and show the characterās same-sex/opposite-sex attractions as the plot requires. House of Cards IMO is an excellent example of how bisexuality was handled. Frank, the protagonist, is introduced as a guy in a straight marriage and nobody expected to be revealed later on that he was romantically involved with a man during his college years.
I donāt think saying āX character identifies as bi/gay/lesbianā on Twitter is the best way to handle the issue. I prefer it when the lore material speaks for itself; I donāt think a character being something other than straight should be reason to make an āannouncementā/official statement about their sexuality or anything of the sort, really.
I know this may sound like the kind of argument anti-LGBT folk use, but I just want to live in a world where non-straight sexuality isnāt treated as ānewsā. Where people will have an āoh, ok, whateverā reaction when they get to know X character is into the same sex or into both sexes.
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I agree 100%, although I dislike that Frank is playing into the ādevious bisexualā trope. Outside of that, they did have a good reveal for it.
Just hate that Frank is evil.
I havenāt talked to anybody in this thread in so long I hope yall are doing well.
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That game is so fun though. But mirage is the one who has my heart
Iām surprised by how likable and personable the characters in this game are. At first hand I thought they looked extremely bland and meh but the voice acting is pretty freaking top tier! The robot, the masked person, Mirage and Gibraltar are all amazing!
I want to be sandwiched between Gibraltar and Mirage. Anyone else?
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