Let's see how many top 500s/GMs got stuck in 3900

well the problem is, these top500 players show 3900sr, but are still playing top500 lobbies.
they changed the sr, but not the mmr resulting in gaining more sr for wins than you lose.


I think there’s a more up-to-date version, but this older collection of everything we know about SR/MMR is the one I have a link for saved in my bookmarks. It has a ton of references to the original sources of what we know, mostly dev interviews and dev posts back when devs actually talked to us in the forums.

Historically, SR has been basically just a visual representation of MMR because a number from 500 to 5000 is more appealing than a number from -3 to 3. At the end of each match, your MMR is adjusted based on win/loss, +/-performance adjust, +/- streak adjust, and your SR is adjust to be closer to a number that is ‘equal’ to your MMR mapped to SR values. Essentially the two numbers are nearly in lockstep, just at different scales since they adjust in the same direction at the same time in the normal case.

SR Decay and Leaver Penalties have sometimes adjusted your SR separately from your MMR, and now so does the SR cap. In this case your MMR and SR are disconnected, and when your SR is adjusted to be ‘closer’ to where your MMR should map to, the difference will not be just the new adjustment from the match you just completed. In this case, SR can move substantially more as it tries to equalize with MMR. If you play enough games at your previous performance level, you’ll soon have an SR that is the same as if these artificial adjustments (= not tied to gameplay results and MMR changes) had not occurred at all and your SR will return to simply being a mapping of MMR to a more user-friendly scale.


This right here proves what I said, the only people getting “stuck” are the ones that camped the ladder for multiple seasons, while the ones who actively played are already climbing back into GM. Congrats on making it back into GM.


I got placed 3900 on open and role queue.
If you legit believe that GM players cannot manage to get a few wins to get back to gm… Most of them play the 25 games or 50 games that are required for top500 anyway.


I am pretty sure this is gone for a long time.

The current version is here:


Streak adjustment was removed for awhile, and then after being gone for almost a year was added back at around half strength or a little less… but I’m honestly not sure of its current status.

If it is considered abusing the system to go for the stats that give you the highest SR gains then maybe those stats shouldn’t be determining our SR in the first place.


Here’s the thing with elo hell and climbing. It takes a very very long time to climb if you’re only marginally better than the people you’re playing with. Think somewhere in the range 50-100 hours of playing. I will agree with people that this is a stupidly long time to have to play to climb 500 pts (and mind you, this is with a 50-60% win rate).


This is my experience. This is the experience of every single person I know that plays overwatch. And I don’t care what people who say otherwise are babbling about.
I also don’t care about the experience of a Mid-diamond to GM level player playing in plat. And also, where’s all the “hard stuck bronze accounts to GM streams?” Oh that’s right, they don’t exist.


Everyone would be bored quickly with system where you can climb fast.

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You’re obviously speculating and have nothing to back this up. And you’re also creating something of a strawman.

I suspect that the main problem people have is being paired with teammates that ruin their chances of winning, and being paired with losing teams too often. The number of good, close matches, compared to horrible matches where the match is lost when the teams form, especially below diamond, is what makes people want to give up on the game. The quality of the matchmaking is terrible.


It only uses those stats below Diamond. After you hit 3K SR, it only cares about winning and losing.


Not with that sr. They may get trapped in Master forever since they will have master teammates. Well I guess master teammates are wayyyyy better than gold or plat lol.

We’ll never know how the matchmaking system works as well as how many players are playing right now. I think they are top OW secrets.

From my observation, they are using mmr system for sure and trying to increase/decrease your chances of winning based on the combine value of the whole team. That explains all the phenomena we are seeing, including elo hell, forced winrate, etc.

Yea the mystery history MMR that affects your placement.

But the thing is there are so many roles and so many heroes. What determines that you’re marginally better. Also the game is heavily based on teamwork. In lower levels you get very bad teammates, including healers. That makes it even harder to climb up, because you have to be way better than your teammates and have to carry every game.

There we go. I don’t know why people defend the matchmaking system. So they haven’t met any of these situations? I don’t believe them.

Not with me. I can tell if I’m the one who drags the whole team behind so I’ll know this is my level. But what I get are bunch of gold medals, and a team that is impossible to win. The system is rigged for sure. Basically I have to be very good to climb out, I know, but that’s not how a good matchmaking system works.

The wait time is also hideous. The balancing is a joke. The game has so much potential and it’s so sad that the dev team is utterly incompetent.

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And how good matchmaking system works then. Player base is your enemy in climbing, if you want to rank up, you need to beat players in your ranks, sometimes even higher ones. You will not climb by being on same skill levels as players in your elo.

So yes, you need to be very good to climb, playing better than players in your rank is enough for climbing. How fast you climb depends on how much better than them you are.


Don’t waste your time arguing with Shadow, his hobby or maybe his second job is defending anything and everything Blizzard does. “They’re always right, if it’s in the game, it’s as if God himself coded it. blah, blah, blah.”

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they are getting top500 players at 3900 because the mmr did not change, so they lose maybe 10sr for a loss and win 35+.


I’ll be hardstuck at 3900 for forever since I just don’t care enough to do more than the placements. :smiley:


We know quite a lot about the matchmaking system, actually. Not everything, of course, but it’s not all that secret, it’s just that what we’ve been told is broken up into bits and pieces explained here and there over the years. Most people don’t bother to read it, even though the collected information has been put together into a continuously updated document.

But yes, we do know that they try to balance games so that each team has an equal chance of winning. That’s called making a fair match, when you have two teams of equal average skill.

For a variety of reasons, it isn’t always successful, and even when it is successful, hero choices, communication issues, or even differences in map familiarity can cause a game to feel very one-sided.

People attribute this to the matchmaker specifically persecuting them as individuals or specifically favoring other individuals through some conspiratorial hidden criteria, but honestly… it’s just variance. The matchmaker has no way to know who’s better at Hanamura and who’s better at Busan, who’s better at Mercy and who’s better at Lucio … it could, in a more complex system, but it doesn’t currently score players per-map or per-hero.

Even with the most fine-tuned of systems, the game has no way to know if your main tank is in top shape, just got home from an exhausting day of work, or is on a day off and just smoked a bowl of the high-grade stuff.

It’s really just not realistic to expect a close match every time, not even when the matchmaker does its job as perfectly as possible. That, however, is the ideal so many people rate it against, but of course it falls short of achieving the impossible.

Also, I don’t know if you saw it but Kaawumba pointed out the current edition of the document:


Yes. I’m supposed to. However, the system is rigged so new accounts got placed in higher levels easier. I’ve seen pros/streamers game that they are not doing anything. The team carried the heck out. Does that mean those streamers are way better than their teammates? No, and they got sr anyway.

After a winning streak you’ll see. Yea you carried the team for the last three games using dps. In the forth game you couldn’t even pick a dps cause I’ll guarantee you at least three dps have chosen already. Does that mean your skill suddenly worse in the forth game? No. In fact you may be even better after all the warm up.

LOL thanks. Maybe he works for Bliz or he’s papa Jeff himself I don’t know. I’m open to discussion.

So, rigged…

Good points. I get it. There is no perfect system, but I’m just not happy that OW doesn’t even consider changing it.

Just throw out some ideas on the top of my head:

  • Role Queue kind of helps. Ok there is no perfect match, but could you decrease the wait time for role queue as dps? 10+ minutes is a freaking joke. Why would l wait for 10 minutes for a 20 minutes game where the balance is trash anyway?

  • Sr based on INDIVIDUAL performance. You perform well, as dps, healer, tank, you get more sr. If you carried and the team still lost, you lost less sr OR gain like 5 srs.

  • Ban/Pick system in pros or high level games, but balance heroes based on the major player base. Stop over buff or over nerf heroes, and listen to our feedback. Thus further spread out the roles. If supports and tanks are fun, I’ll pick them instead of dps every game.