Let's Revisit the Absurdity of "Hide and Rez"

[MerlinBrando-11655]

Absolutely. If people applied reading comprehension there wouldn’t be threads like this created in the first place.

[Jimin-21586]

You must dislike reading. Makes me wonder why you’re on an online forum in the first place.

[Prett-1169]

I can tell you know that this is objectively false.

GM Mercy main btw.

People letting their teammates die as Mercy is naturally going to get worse in terms of how often it is done when you buff the frequency of being able to use Resurrect, I.e: Charge to use to 30 Seconds .

There is objectively no value in letting your teammate die with res in its current state.

[Justin-17714]

Assuming this actually became a problem, which I don’t really see any reason it would be, you can fix that by increasing SR benefits in parts of her kit that are what the devs would like to see Mercy using. Again, there is a simple solution, and there’s the one the devs took.

so punish those who are good at one thing but not so good at another? punish others with a different playstyle because you want yours to be the main way to play? no that’s not how balancing should be done.

I’m just saying that reason is bull.

and im just saying it doesn’t matter what you think, the devs moved forward with what they wanted because the game is following their vision.

[PuffyPony-1639]

One of the interesting things, too, is that folks will cite the devs in an attempt to say, “the devs said Mass Rez is never coming back!”

Right. You mean the same devs that said they weren’t going to add CTF or FFA? The same devs who on numerous occasions have said “We think [insert hero here] is fine and doesn’t need any changes” before nerfing them again?

The devs change their minds.

[Undertone-2728]

Hypothesis #1: Hiding to use Resurrect was a common strategy before Mercy’s rework.

The other hypothesis that we can extract from this assertion is not directly stated. However, considering the argumentative context in which the assertion is most often stated or implied (including the Developer Update), along with the implications of of “was” in the assertion, it is reasonable to conclude that the second hypothesis is included in said assertion.

Hypothesis #2: Hiding to use Resurrect is no longer a common strategy after the rework.

Correlation doesn’t imply causation, not to even mention that your hypotheses are not interconnected. And they are not both true. The rest of this wall of text is based on unverified numbers and false premises.

Not to even mention that the first does not indirectly state the other. That’s basically a logical leap on your behalf. Your entire wall of text is based on a faulty premise.

Mass Rez was an unhealthy mechanic. The evidence for that is abundant.

[Jimin-21586]

GM Mercy main btw.

I’m not watching this. Cut straight to the point though I doubt you have one since you just linked a ROBLOX video…

There is objectively no value in letting your teammate die with res in its current state.

Same can be said before her rework. Yet it still happens. That’s because of Resurrect as a whole. To fix what they see as an issue, they need to remove the ability. I doubt they’re going to do that though so I’m advocating for the second best thing; a better version of Resurrect.

[PuffyPony-1639]

so punish those who are good at one thing but not so good at another? punish others with a different playstyle because you want yours to be the main way to play? no that’s not how balancing should be done.

This is literally what the Mercy rework did, but in a far more heavy-handed way that punished those who tempo Rezz’d instead of just those who waited for the 5-or-6 man Rez. Like I said: you can address the issue in a specific, targeted fashions that uniquely punishes people who participate in bad behaviors like Hide n Rez without punishing everyone else. The Mercy rework, though, punished everyone else–and I would like to emphasize everyone. Whereas a ham-fisted SR change would largely only hurt Mercy players, the Mercy rework pretty well hurt everyone.

and im just saying it doesn’t matter what you think, the devs moved forward with what they wanted because the game is following their vision.

For which I am free to criticize them. The fact that the developers have final say on the direction of the game doesn’t mean that they are immune to criticism, nor that I do not have the right to lambaste them for what I perceive as poor decisions. That said, I am not entirely confident that the devs have a firm vision for where they want their game to go, and that they don’t just make changes in response to the feedback of players, particularly those in the upper echelons that are currently one of the larger sources of income for the company.

[Prett-1169]

I’m not watching this. Cut straight to the point though I doubt you have one since you just linked a ROBLOX video…

Right, so you’re being willfully ignorant. Good argument.

Same can be said before her rework. Yet it still happens.

No, it can’t be said before her rework. There was value in letting your teammates die before using mass res, because you get more out of your ultimate…

[Jimin-21586]

Right, so you’re being willfully ignorant. Good argument.

And you’re not going to explain why you linked a ROBLOX video. Good way of presenting evidence to support your point…

No, it can’t be said before her rework. There was value in letting your teammates die before using mass res, because you get more out of your ultimate…

Hiding to use your ultimate lowered the value of your ultimate. You’re more likely to get wiped again if you hide to ult because the fight before that, the enemy would’ve used little to no resources as they were fighting a one sided fight. Again, there’s no value in hiding in both cases. Hiding still happened. The only difference know is that there is reason to believe that hiding to Res is more common than before.

[ƗƘƘƗǾ-1847]

However, hiding is now mandatory for any rez. The only difference is that instead of using it before, you must actually think about which of your teammates are the most important to rez, rather than just pressing Q and reviving however many people you want.*

That sounds a bit more accurate to me. Everyone acts like the rework lowered her skill ceiling, but really, it raises it.

But I should leave before I get banned for fighting with the Mercy Mains™️

[Prett-1169]

And you’re not going to explain why you linked a ROBLOX video. Good way of presenting evidence to support your point…

If you clicked on the video… you’d know.
“not even joking guys, this is how i played Mercy 1.0”

Hiding to use your ultimate lowered the value of your ultimate.

Not when the value is depicted by how many you use it on.

The only difference know is that there is reason to believe that hiding to Res is more common than before.

Stepping behind cover is not the same as hiding…

[Jimin-21586]

That sounds a bit more accurate to me. Everyone acts like the rework lowered her skill ceiling, but really, it raises it.

I disagree with this and even then, you haven’t even gotten onto Valkyrie. That beast is the main reason why her skillceiling decreased after her rework.

[ƗƘƘƗǾ-1847]

Valkyrie is No* more brainless than mass rez, in my opinion *

[ƗƘƘƗǾ-1847]

Why does the forums break my phone’s autocorrect

[ƗƘƘƗǾ-1847]

several people are typing…

[Titanium-1686]

Do you have any proof?

Are you asking me to prove that your experience is what you say it is?

Or are you asking for proof behind this assertion:

Your experience does not match the broad reality of the situation.

Because my proof of that is in the OP. It’s literally the entire point of the OP.

We should have statistical symptoms of “hide and rez” existing and then disappearing. We don’t have any symptoms indicating that. As said in the OP:

Numbers don’t lie or fall victim to misconception. A person can.

Nope, they are not held constant over time.
Especially not when we look at buffs and changes in the meta.

Are you referring to the fact that Mercy was meta for many of those post-rework data points? Because that would mean we should be expecting an even greater increase in average healing…

600 health, only in the games where the mercy hid.
In other matches she would not hide, and would heal.
So on average that doesn’t change much at all.

Furthermore, if someone is going to use “hide and rez” once in a match, they’re almost certainly going to use it again, which means that they will be losing way more than 600 healing/match compared to the player that didn’t use the aforementioned tactic.

If someone sees fit to hide and let their team die so they can get a fat rez, they’re going to do it again… because they see it fit.

This fits with half of the mercy players doing the hide and rez…

200-400 short from the expected, and that’s if we assume “hide and rez” isn’t in the equation. If we assume that “hide and rez” is in the equation, that would mean that reality would differ even more from what we expect… which means that the assumptions we are making to conclude our expected values would be incorrect, as they are taking us further from reality.

This is dependent on the lenght of a match, how often she gets her ult, etc.

In which case, the amount of healing lost would be proportional to how much healing she is already doing and how long the match is, of which we would have an average that would be deflated compared to the non-hiding player. Meanwhile, a player not using the tactic would see no such proportional loss; they would see no loss at all in their averages.

Thus, the pre-rework overall average, by comparing it to the post-rework averages and accounting for the factors that we know for a fact would influence those numbers, would show us whether or not there was deflation. That deflation is nonexistent. Therefore, the employment of the tactic was so rare that it had a negligible impact on the healing averages.

If a tactic that includes nonparticipation has no impact on the healing averages, then that tactic must be so rare that it isn’t even worth addressing.

No. You are only looking for a change in healing.

And using that to determine a change in tactics while accounting for known influences.

[Sly-13591]

Question:
Wouldn’t a “hide and Res” Mercy that leaves the fight before for roughly 10 to 15 seconds to hide for that once in a game 5 man have the roughly the same healing output as a Mercy now who gets 6 E Res’s?

The two would be statistically similar due to E’s cast time, so it’d be possible that hide and old res was common while still keeping up with the new Mercy.

[Hyphen-21921]

Lets revisit the option of reporting duplicate threads again.
Because nobody needs a “daily/weekly” reminder spam thread about one of the 3 same things over and over :

• Valkyrie sucks
• Revert mercy
• Bring Mass ress back.

Its against the rules of the forum and yet again, these posts keep happening … i guess some people is over the forum rules huh ?

[Baja-11423]

…Stuff that we’ve already heard before