Objectively false. Players have used “Hide n Res” to Res one player before when mass Res existed. And again, Blizzard have made it clear that the problem they have with “Hide n Res” is the mindset.
That’s not the point. You’re argument was that Mercy hiding costs the life of teammates and risks defeat whilst a DPS hiding won’t have this issue. I argued that this is false. You can’t now just say that the severity of the heroes absence determines whether hiding is acceptable or not. Even then, this is a moot point since this is a matter of opinion. You say that Mercy leaving the fight to hide is worse than a DPS leaving the fight to hide whilst I’ll say the inverse.
On the contrary, said questions do not need to be considered because of the functionality of current Res. The main objective you have with current Res is to Res as much as possible. With that in mind, the other questions do not need to pass through your mind at all, with the only real question being:
Will doing this get me killed?
Coming from the one who changed the goalpost of their original argument.
This isn’t the problem with hide and rez. Letting teammates die was the problem. If you know you can’t save one teammate, letting them die isn’t an issue. The problem was letting teammates die that didn’t need to die, teammates that could have lived if you didn’t hide.
I never said hiding was ok. I claimed a dps leaving had less risk than Mercy leaving in the example I gave. I didn’t change my argument.
Firstly, Blizzard made it clear to mention themselves that they didn’t like the mindset of “Hide n Res”. Claiming that it isn’t a problem is well, silly. Secondly, the issue was the fact that you were letting any amount of teammates die. Not that it was more than one teammate dying.
On the contrary, it is an issue. A healer sustains her teammate until they can no longer do so. If a Mercy stops sustaining a teammate simply because she beliefs that they will die anyway and will get ressed back up, that goes against the existence of Mercy as a main healer.
Apparently the above doesn’t matter if only one teammate, who could’ve lived, dies because a Mercy decides to through away said teammates life. Nice logic you have there.
(Sarcasm. This is a ridiculous argument)
Are you sure? Because this is what you said:
“Mercy hiding costs the life of teammates and risks defeat but a DPS hiding causes no such risks” isn’t the same as claiming that a DPS leaving has less risk than a Mercy leaving to hide, which you claimed after you strawmaned your argument.
In which case, why did she do it? That’s not implying a mechanic issue. That’s a reward issue.
I think having less risk is not very fair to claim. I also think to day hide and rez is always bad means to be fair hide and kill is jst as bad on dps.
Your like and dislikes for it is not a matter that is being discussed. I didn’t care for it. If it came back, I would likely stop playing mercy as I hadn’t before. That doesn’t mean anything for game design, nor does my dislike of it mean that it’s bad design as a mechanic.
It does happen though. There are still cases where Mercy players hide and wait for certain teammates to die so they can Res said teammate with reasoning that wary from doing it to stall to doing it to revive the player quicker.
You said “when” to directly reply to what I said regarding it being a double standard. Not to make the distinction that the above is not all the time. If you were trying to make said distinction, you would’ve said something along the lines of what you said after you said the above.
Nor does anything else??? Of course it’s my opinion. It’s also your opinion that hide and rez was bad. And that hide n Rez existed to the extent that it was a problem.
Valk is bad design is an opinion just as much as ‘more people’ would not be happy if mass Rez returned.
So I’ll restate my 'Valk is bad design" in how it’s phrased as an opinion.
Valk is bad design compared to every other aspect of the game–> significantly less opinionated.
Just like with Supports, it depends on the DPS and the situation. If we’re talking about a mid/long range DPS, you give up space. Sure, McCree can leave the team to try and flank, but his long range damage allows the enemy to approach. If the flank fails, then he just invited the enemy team to get free space for no reason.
Same is true if the enemy team has flankers. McCree gives up backline defense with his FB on the hopes of doing backline damage himself. If his flank goes wrong, he just made his team more vulnerable for no reason.
The difference is that Mercy hiding has no “opportunity” moment. If she’s hiding to Rez, then the condition she’s waiting on (dead teammates) is one that can’t happen unless the fight has already swung against her team. A flanking DPS can end their stealth at any time.
Ugh. Fine then. Either way though, the argument you are presenting is still flawed. Saying who’s absence in the match would be more bad for said players team; a DPS or a Mercy is a matter of opinion. Such an argument isn’t all that effective when it comes to defending “Hide n Ult” (excluding Mercy).
The devs removed it because it was a problem. Plus other problems with mass rez. Such as requiring dead teammates to be used. It can’t be used proactively. Valkyrie can be used in more situations than mass rez.
The example you gave is not a problem imo. It’s a mechanic restriction.
Just as much as yours. And I stated it’s less opinionated.
“Valk is unlike any other ult” fact.
Why it’s good or bad to use Is opinion.
Why it’s bad design is also opinion but based more in fact. Design as a whole is opinion. You cannot inherently argue for art outside of opinion. You have to just try and justify in context. You can like the Incredibles II. Does it make it a good movie? No. Does it mean that saying it’s a bad movie is less opinionated? No. But having context of what makes a good movie vs bad is what makes one side less biased than another.
Valk Is bad design. The game itself and other games give it context more than valk is good design.
Mass rez is good design. The game itself and other games give it more context than mass Rez is bad design.
The problem with “The Devs removed it for this reason so it must be right” arguments is that, by extension, any and all decisions the devs make and the reasons for those decisions must also be correct.
So, for instance, if the entire player base is complaining about a character, map or mechanic and the devs haven’t done anything about it, then their decision not to do so is correct. Or, if they nerf/rework a character to the point that they are no longer competitively viable, then that must have been the correct decision.
No. Everyone makes mistakes. You can’t expect everything the devs do to be perfect. I wasn’t arguing that anyway. N7Warrior said the devs never said hide and rez was a problem, and in response, I linked the video where Jeff said so himself.
![:smirk:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/smirk.png?v=6" ":smirk:")
![:joy:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/joy.png?v=6" ":joy:")
If you were trying to make said distinction, you would’ve said something along the lines of what you said after you said the above.