dont they just rename you player?
My only issue is that they used to be better. The past year and a half has been atrocious as far as considering the consumer and more about the GMs and above. This has been especially apparent in events and content creation. The last good event imo was the anniversary. While the skins over summer and halloween were alright, there has been a noticable drop in quality. This Lunar year is the worst yet (maybe its my ignorance of Chinese culture, but “armor and beards” was the apparent theme this year), the winter event didnt even have a new main menu picture, and the voice lines/highlight intros/emotes have been particularly meh (for me particularly, something seems wrong with Junkrat’s VA, used to be great but now he sounds like a soulless husk). Activision-Blizzard has taken a hit due to Fortnite, but a company like Epic Games (who used to only be known for Unreal Engine) shouldnt have internally clobbered a AAA game giant like this. Im afraid to say Overwatch is in the wrong hands
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people told me blizzard was always like this, with all their games so…
Naw they used to care. I hve friends who play WOW and Diablo and they all say this past year or so, Blizzard has dropped the ball in all aspects
welp i have friends who played starcraft 2, they say they would just bandaid fix stuff for esports but dont care
Thats a shame, I had better hope in old Blizzard. RIP
Just because you are at high ranks that does not mean your insight is better or more important than anybodies else.
Someone who mains support in the top 500 has equal knowledge on balancing the dps as someone who mains tanks in gold. Its not their role, their input in this case is equally important.
To get to the competitive pro scene you need to have great aim, reflexes, map knowledge and team coordination. NONE of these worth anything for balance issues.
As i said upper, why would they know more than everybody else?
Someone to become professional with hitscan dps needs great aim, good reflexes, map knowledge, general knowledge of your skills (seriously what kind of advanced knowledge do you think the pros have about any hero?) and finally high team coordination combined with good positioning.
To be a professional with a projectile hero you need pretty much the same with a little bit of extra at calculating projectile travel time.
Now to the bolded part once again please tell me what kind of advanced knowledge could the pros have on hero skills what someone from bronze couldnt know?
Lets take for example Reapers shadow step. We know that you are vulnerable during the full cast time. It can reach max 35 meters, takes atleast 1 second to be casted and the whole teleportion is approx 2 second long.
What extra did i miss what someone at the top500 could know?
Are you literally going to ignore that without the soo called unimportant people this game will just freakin die?
Lets take again Reaper with his buff please tell me how did he got better for anybody? As far as i see the this change has adressed nothing of his problems at high ranks and only made it worse to play against reaper in lower ranks where most of the playerbase is.
Get down from your high horse and for a second forget that “people dont want to improve!”. You might not believe me but people are trying to improve at low ranks but that doesnt help when their teams get hard stomped after failed balance attempts overtune/undertune heros.
I dont blame the idea, infact i agree with it but damm that execution…
Im not sure about that, i in fact dont think that they or us have any better idea on balancing.
Reading throught the forums leads to 2 types of post, one where its obvious that the post maker simply dont want to play around an enemy hero (thought it makes some sense that mirror play gets boring after a while) and one where they see the flaws and want to change it.
Im not sure dva could have been considered OP in any sense, but yeah.
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False. A high rank player is objectively better at the game and knows more than low tier players.
No, because they play against and with DPS heroes when they are played to their full capability. Gold players have never seen a really good Tracer.
All true. But you missed that they also need a very deep understanding of heroes/hero synergies, team comps, weakness and how to exploit them or cover them etc.
No, it wouldn’t. If they were willing to learn and improve they wouldn’t feel stuck with 2 options:
Demand changes
Or
Leave the game
He didn’t. No idea what point you think you’re making.
And as you’ve said, at the high tier, it didn’t address any of his problems, therefore it was just an all around bad balance since no one is satisfied. Which doesn’t relate to our situation.
Nothing to do with a high horse. Just facts that people don’t want to accept.
Right. And this is why we have rank systems. SR is meant to reflect (albeit loosely) your rate of improvement.
This is not an excuse for being stuck at a certain ELO. Any OP hero that the enemy can use can just as readily used by your team.
You know what? Prove it.
Since you ignored it completely i now request you to show me what kind of hidden knowledge someone could have at Reapers Shadow Step.
Below is what I know of this skill, im sure since those high rank players know it much better than us common folk could add something valuable to it what someone at bronze wouldnt know already:
I guess you completely ignore the smurfing problem the forums were full with last year.
Once again i ask you to prove this, for this one lets take Mercy. What kind of hero synergy you can tell us about her what the common silverfolk might not know, what kind of weaknesses you can show to us what are not freakin obvious.
At the Blizzard headquaters
Employe 1: Sir we just lost 90% of the playerbase, what shall we do?
Employer: It doesnt matter, hintofmalice on the forums said will be fine without them and their money.
Do you not see how absurd your statement is, especially if you look up any game economy related document?
Well the point im making here is that either Blizzards sucks at balancing when they use the pros for making balance changes or the pros are not the best at making balance changes.
Either way, the key point here is using the pros for balance changes might not work as seen on reaper.
What facts? You are literally trying to say that anybody who is not at high rank already is stuck there and doesnt want to improve therefore any balance change they might suggest is there to make the game easier.
Also:
Please tell me how the above logic fits your narrative when the pro’s ask for buffs towards shadowstep and wraith form when both of these make Reaper easier to use. Shouldnt they just go and improve themselves?
No one talks about being stuck here expect you. Just because someone is able to survive against a pro zarya that doesnt mean your team can and doesnt mean you will win that round. Its also not too favorable to push your support mains into chars they did not used just so you can mirror counter the enemy hero blizzard managed to overtune in the patch.
So true. They only go by their own feels of the game and what pros tell them. Not what the larger player base feels.
The only time they listen to the community is when a game breaking bug is found, like the hamster being able to perma stall a point. Which they rushed to fix in hours of the report.
while this is true, the community’s voice tends to go along real problems in the game, Brig was a problem before and these forums just happened to be on the same vein of ideas, that’s all
they actually listen to pros but execute the way they want it, like the pros asked for mass rez to be gone, they made a new ult, added mass rez into it, and then kept it op for 6 months without caring about any feedback
Compare SR.
Deliberately picking a mundane and simple ability.
OK, so you know what the ability does. You’ve mentioned nothing about how to use it and it’s draw backs. So, if that’s the basis of your knowledge then yeah, you know pretty much nothing.
OK, due to Smurfs, they may have seen 1 or 2 Top 500 Smurfs. For about 10 minutes each. Not really much to learn there.
If you attend 20 minutes of a Quantum Mechanics lecture, you’re not suddenly on the level of Stephen Hawking.
Again, picking an incredibly simple hero. Zarya or Winston would have been much better examples.
But as for Mercy, she synergises well with high burst heroes, since she’s got a reliable damage boost. I’d go so far as to say that Snipers work well with her since they are high burst heroes and they’re typically out of the fight and holding long sight lines, so they provide reliable escape. Pharah is a no brainer and also bad in general atm, so I’ll just drop her name and leave it.
As for weaknesses are very obvious, since she’s a simple hero. Flankers with high mobility are a weakness since they can easily follow her when she GAs. Snipers are also as a counter since they can easily get picks and watch over the body without sacrificing anything, thus denying Rez.
My point, which you seem to have missed, was that people shouldn’t have the mindset that if they’re struggling then the game should be made easier for them so they can do better. They do, and that causes major problems, but that’s a really self righteous view to have.
Pros shouldn’t have the be-all-end-all of balance changes. They should tell the Devs what’s wrong with the game and the Devs should be the ones to make the solution.
It’s not always that they don’t want to. As you said, sometimes they try, but can’t. This is why they get placed at a lower rank. That’s not justification to change the whole game around them though.
It’s true that Pros aren’t perfect. In high level play, most heroes are being played close to their maximum potential. This is the only condition under which you can have an objective opinion on balance. Sure, again, pros aren’t perfect, but their subjective opinions are much more informed than, say, a Gold’s.
I thought the whole premise of this was that people weren’t able to climb? If someone in Gold is both able and willing to improve they will climb. If they stop at Top 500 or GM then there isn’t an issue. If they stop at Diamond then resume scenario; player should focus on improving.
I’m assuming this is a smurf example since you said “Pro Zarya”. A player being really good at a hero doesn’t mean the hero is OP. Also performance based SR exists, so one game dropped with a Smurf isn’t going to keep you in a rank. I’ve been in mid-Gold. Yes, game quality isn’t great, but if you’re meant to climb, you will.
Of course not, that’s terrible game design. If Blizzard has Overtuned someone in a patch, then Nerfs should be in order. However, I’d like to clarify that seeing a hero a lot doesn’t mean they’re Overtuned.
The problem is, most of the forum is comprised of players that have a problem with the game. People who like the game generally don’t come here, instead they’re out playing and having fun. Because most people here have issues, they build each other up to the point where everyone starts to believe things are terrible and that they’re always terrible. It starts a cycle that just goes downhill. There is a lot of legitimate feedback here and they do read it, but a lot of it is buried under a sea of posts.
[Edit, separating this from the rest of the post to make the addition more obvious.] There’s a lot fewer pros than there are of us, so it’s easier to get feedback from them. That feedback is probably a lot better than ours too simply because they see the game in a different way. This is a team game and they get how all the pieces fall together really well. They can see how a small change that affects one character could have a potential ripple effect through the rest of the cast. They can help pinpoint the causes of issues a lot better than most of us can. I’m not saying they’re all knowing and know what’s best for the game at all levels, but when it comes to finding quality feedback it’s much easier to talk to them than wade through the thousands of posts in here.
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i disagree a lot, people i kno who dont like the game, arent here, they’re playing other games
those who love the game come to complain for the game to be what they loved and only that
Maybe I should rephrase a little. People don’t know how to give good feedback. They’re frustrated when they feel like they’re getting beat down by certain characters over and over again so they come here and voice their opinions. Many of those opinions are not very nice, a lot of them are just people venting, others try to be helpful but maybe they don’t fully grasp how the system works so they suggests nerfs and buffs that don’t exactly make sense. There’s very little actual good feedback here and it can be hard to decipher what’s good and what isn’t when it’s all clumped together.
Talking to the pros may not be the one and only go-to solution, but the amount of good feedback is a lot higher there.
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You only realised this just now? This has always been the case. Blizzard only look to the forum when determining the general community conscious, they don’t actually favour our input on anything.
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I dunno, I see more things in-game that I’ve asked for, than changes that Seagull has asked for ![:slight_smile:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
I guess you just skimmed over the part what says “you are vulnerable while casting”. As for uses its a teleport ability with 35 meter range, can be used to flank around the enemy team, jump directly into the middle of their group to execute the ult.
As you said upper its mundane and simple, theres really not much to know of it but you are soo adamant on the pro’s knowing much more of it so there you go, you are free to prove it. Show a way to use this skill what no common gold player would know.
It was never about knowing them or not, you stated that “Gold players have never seen a really good Tracer.”
And from all of this just what was the thing we didnt knowed already? Come on, im sure that even bronze below 1000 players would know this already.
Now i can agree with this, that mindset can ruin lots of games sadly.
Now if the balance changes were made in an order where you first take a look at the largest playerbase than go higher and higher refining the balance changes till its “perfect” (nothing is perfect) that would be great.
The thing is currently it seems like Blizzard takes into a large amount of feedback, partially ignores it, then proceeds to deploy changes.
I believe the only condition where you can actually balance is when you take out almost all human interaction and concentrate on machinelike play.
Set up a goal and enter the hero in a pre-set sceniario, test it widely and long till you reach a desired end.
After this you take into feedback and compare your findings and improvements with the provided data and further change it if needed.
Rinse and repeat till perfection.