Stuff usually needs to die in order to make progress. Anything indirect to not killing things is reduced value. Knockbacks can lead to deaths, but it is not as good as stuns. Therefore, stuns are a better effect to have since it can lead into death more directly as there is no counter play from the character.
Sustained damage can be healed up at a constant rate it is healed, but you can’t heal death (apart from resurrection). Therefore, burst damage is the preferred sort of death mechanic to bypass healing.
Therefore, the most carry heavy roles will be on units which possess these qualities that can lead into kills. Anything else is just an effect that enables someone else to carry such as Mercy damage boosting someone.
Which means if you want to carry in a role it will be on whatever has the most kill potential be it roadhog, widowmaker, doomfist, zenyatta, etc. However, as its a team game you can still be thwarted by an opposing team denying you any chances to get easy kills and so you sort of need the team to back you up.
That’s why Lucio exists. That’s why dive tanks exist. If 2-2-2 was put against a 3-3 comp and both teams were piloted by players with equal skill then I guarantee the 3-3 comp would win every time.
There are bruiser tanks (D.Va, Hog) and Moira and Brig to take care of flankers.
Lucio pressures shields?
And yes, dive is a good option, but why is it not played over Zarya and Rein?
Sure, everyone works together to push and break a shield - but DPS do have the highes DMG output in the game, especially some shieldbrea heros such as Junk and Hanzo.
Mei can wall of entire frontlines and isolating targets, maing them an easy kill.
I really don’t think that’s the case. 2-2-2 nowadays has a good chance, especially with tank nightmares such as Reaper and Mei.
D.va and hog need to assis the frontline tank, most likely Rein and if Moira doesnt pay attention to those tanks, they can get rolled over by the enemy team.
If the tanks aren’t creating space the DPS can’t do anything unless they are smurfing
If the healers aren’t healing the DPS then they spend so much downtime just looking for health packs that they hardly get anything done.
Both of the other roles performing their functions are prerequisites for DPS being able to do what they do, meanwhile DPS doing their role isn’t a prerequisite for tanks making space or healers being able to heal. It might make it a little easier but not a whole lot.
And from here I could also say that the most impactful role is support because getting healed is a prerequisite for tanks to be able to make space, meanwhile supports don’t need space to be made in order to heal.
They ARE, but that means they can’t be potatoes, but, for support at least, them playing super well doesn’t do much. As long as they don’t really screw it up, then the fight is on the tanks and DPS, and I am NOT sure which order that is.
A bad support means you will lose, but a really good support doesn’t mean you will win.
You still have flankers or heros who can get behind the enemies backline, lets say Widowmaker first point Dorado.
Same with every role. If they supports on’t heal, then the tanks can not create space and you can’t push at all.
Same szenario if no picks are happening or their frontline is not pressured at all.
Nonono, why pressure the tanks when Lucio can speed in to brawl?
Because Lucio exists.
You’d be surprised at how much damage a Zarya and Zen can output. There is a reason DPS were never used in pro player for almost a year.
They were buffed to counter goats but still couldn’t do it, remember? It’s the whole reason Mei has multi freeze and Reaper had his 50% life steal.
Speaking in terms of not having DPS on the team and running the 3-3 comp, Brig would usually just deny the Tracer any space she could get. Not sure how new armor packs would work, but the old burst heal one would make Zen an unkillable god basically.
Lucio rigth now is a meta pick, alsongside Ana and Rein. They could just speedboost back or boop you back, they can disengage and fall back.
Lucio is actually part of dive. Rein just has a synergy which is too good with nearly every other hero.
Indeed, they can. But didnt zaryas DMG got tuned down? Zen is not really good right now, idk why but I barely see him.
And also was. Times change, meta shifted away from 3-3 to 2-2-2 and balance changed happened.
Indeed, you got a good point there. But what countered goats back then? Triple DPS. They pulled it off in OWL - multiple times.
Then she would have no packs for the frontline anymore. Brig now works amazingly with Tracer but she can also disable the hero. But Tracer can also bait out her shield bash, leaving her vounerable and making her an easy target.
I think it’s important to make a distinction between direct and indirect impact. Direct impact is whatever directly makes a match progress. Simply put, this is killing the enemy (and also capturing objectives, but in the rule you can’t capture objectives if you don’t kill enemies). Then indirect impact is whatever helps others achieve direct impact.
Looking at this, you can say the following:
DPS have most direct impact and support have the least.
Supports have the most indirect impact while DPS have the least
Tanks hover somewhere inbetween for both
Now it all depends on which one is more important in the end. I think that in coordinated play (i.e. premades, high ranks, OWL), indirect impact is far more important than direct impact (since indirect impact becomes exponentially more effective with better communication), which makes supports the most impactful role and dps the least. However, in uncoordinated play (i.e. solo queue, low ranks, casual modes), direct is most important, which makes DPS the most impactful and supports the least.
I think it was proven that DPS is the least impactful role when the whole class went practically unplayed in the GOATS era. I pretty much steam rolled my way to GM with 5 friends and Slambulance on PS4 back in the day.
As a support main, support is the least impactful role. That’s why my support sr is lower than tank/dps.
Why? It doesn’t matter if I heal 30k healing if my team is bad. That means i’ll just be healing tanks who can’t push and dps who can’t kill anything. Everything depends on your team since you’re supposed to keep them alive. And some teams can’t do anything even if I keep them alive all game
Just do disengage, o avoid the DMG, to waste their cooldowns and recourses and then to turn the fight by reengaging with your own abilities being avaliable.
Lil froggy is everywhere!
Sadly. i do love his kit and designe tho!
Hmm, never thoguht about that but it’s okay because they need to balance for 2-2-2 and not 3-3 or 1-4-1 or 2-4-0, etc.
Me neither but i saw a video where they explained how they did it, some pro team kept pulling this off. Was cool tho!
But didnt they adjust her kit so that she heals now less with her inspire? Or was it less overall with her three healthpacks?
Me’s confused…
Indeed but Tracer draws her attiontion away and forces her to turn around and deal with her, even if it’s just for a moment. it can already be enough.
Then why is my DPS Diamond, my Tank high Diamond and my Support 3.9k?
Maybe you’re just better on those roles but it’s not a good indicator if those roles have more impact.
No, moira is my best hero. But as i said, it doesn’t matter if i keep my team alive all game if they’re bad. They’ll still just stand at choke and shoot shields for minutes.
Use voice to tell them to push, keep their HP up so they are motivated and not scared to move forward and shoot DMG orbs to pressure their front and backline.
according to OWL analysis, the most impactful roles in order of high carry to low carry are
Flex supports
Main tanks
Projectile/Flex dps
Main support
Hitscan/Main dps
Offtank
but this analysis is based strictly on OWL and is determined mostly by kill participation. It can be defined in other ways and might not reflect ladder
Id probably say OffTank, Ive been playing a lot of Hog on my “smurf” and tried to rank up with him, but its so hard. I regularly lose fights where I kill 3-4 people. I always get gold damage and elims and sometimes silver heals, but I just cant get above gold. I also sometimes have to flex onto OffTank on my main, where it seems to go pretty well most of the times.
Most of that is probably because we lack a maintank in many of those games on my Offtank acc, so people just die like flies. Players in Gold just cant play without 24/7 babysit.
Tanks clearly have the highest throw potential, as some are utterly useless when they try their best.
Dps clearly have the highest carry potential since clicking heads clears points.
Supports, in general, have relatively low carry potential I mean the role is literally called “support” and they are nerfed for being “impactful” because it’s “oppressive,” but their throw potential, imo, is more dependent on what the enemy supports are doing.
