For the love of god… learn … how … to … counter. Heals can only out heal so much stupid and if you the genji thats fighting zarya,winston,moira,mei… FFS learn how to swap.
4 Likes
If you’re good, you’ll climb bruh.
Jk
That’s my problem with this game. You will lose because someone else’s faults 
4 Likes
There is truth to both of your sentences.
Low effort post is low effort
The developers need to incentivize this. They do not, so it wont change. I played widow on rialto and one of the guys on the enemy team ran pharah Into me, ALL GAME. And he got wrecked. I took him out of the sky every single time. His heart and determination was commendable but his low game sense and selfish behavior was cringe.
1 Like
I think if you get killed by your counter a tip could pop up saying “Your hero is disadvantaged against insert who killed you. You could try playing one of these: list of counters for your role”
1 Like
I wouldn’t go so far as to list a “definitive” set of counters to them. Makes it possible for players to become too narrow minded on what can and can’t be played.
For example, if you’re too specific with the counters and only put the best ones on the list then you get players who are only going to one or two options no matter what the rest of the match is like, but if you just put anything that can have an advantage depending on play styles then you can cause players to switch to something that does not actually have the advantage they expect because of the scenario.
I’d just say “you’re dying a lot to (character), perhaps try a different hero?” Just listing counters won’t do much if the player doesn’t understand why that hero is/can be a counter.
I can agree to the list being to narrow. But, unless the player knows, having any list is a good way to improve. Someone as bad as me doesn’t know counters. And, honestly, I can’t be bothered to learn them. Having a list in-game would prob help. As I won’t do research out of game.
It could help but it could also lead to more narrow minded mindsets for players “you’re not playing (x character) which is the counter to that hero. You’re not trying!” (Even though the way the first player plays the hero they are on may function fine either as a skill matchup or even a counter to it.)
The game doesn’t need more in match tips that can either distract a player or tell them specifically what to do for one specific hero while ignoring the rest of the match. it needs a better tutorial and nuanced approach to teach players concepts, not just “here’s how you point and shoot.”
An in depth tutorial would be great.
Think about your statement. It would make players narrowminded. If that pharah doesn’t switch at all vs that Widowmaker who keeps headshotting them, what harm would a suggested list do? It’s a non-ordering way to suggest another hero would be better. And, even with a limited list, playing more than one hero is branching out.
I’m not saying don’t suggest them to switch at all if they keep dying a lot (even in general not just to the same person).
However what I am saying is, don’t suggest specific heroes as it can mislead them to heroes they either don’t play well or don’t work with the rest of what’s going on in the match. All it needs to say is “you’re dying a lot (maybe to x hero) perhaps consider switching to a different hero?”
Don’t forget too suggestions like this will encourage players to switch yeah, but sometimes when it’s unnecessary. I’ve played Junkrat against bad pharahs before who can’t kill us quickly at all. In that situation I don’t need to switch off as we can just continue beating the rest of their team while they do little on the hero that is supposed to counter me.
I understand the idea of what you’re saying. But, coming from a bad player as myself, having some kind of counter list would be helpful. And having this list in-game I believe you would see the general population get better.
What is your rank, btw? I’m talking from (my rank) about a 1200 rating standpoint.
My three roles range from 1600-2250. The simple thing is I don’t think it should ever suggest specific heroes to play against other heroes individually. For the simple fact that there are 5 other people on the other team that you need to take into account. For example, you may be countering the enemy tankline with reaper or Junkrat but get killed by someone else. Yes you can swap but if you swap only to counter the person who killed you blindly then you let the enemy tankline run free.
The closest thing I’d say they could/should do to what you’re describing is to put in the hero roster screen a list of strengths/attributes and weaknesses (for example a strength/attribute of Ashe would be mid/long range hitscan while it would be a weakness for pharah.)
But only put that either in the hero roster in the menu or maybe also in the hero select screen. But don’t mention specific heroes as strong or weak matchups, just archetypes. Let the players pick based on that information.
I think the extra info on the select screen would be good. I think it could easily be added to the F1 screen. Showing what heros said hero is strong, weak and neutral against.
Like i said. I don’t think it should ever mention specific heroes. Just archetypes and then label each hero by said archetypes. Don’t tell people what Heroes specifically something is strong or weak against if it won’t explain why they are strong or weak. Then they just go in blindly and can potentially just be worse off because they play it wrong for the situation.
I disagree. You’re going to have your team yelling at you anyways to play something specific to counter. I would like to see an official ingame list. As when people tell me what counters, I feel it’s only their opinion. And, keep doing my thing. I’m more likely to listen when there is an official stance.
An official in game list of heroes should never exist. Like I said. Either say what things. not heroes but stuff like “hitscan” or “burst damage” or “cc” or “long range damage”. If you put the heroes in you need to explain why they are strong or weak not just name them. Yes Winston is weak against reaper but if you avoid the reaper as Winston you’ll be okay. That’s all that if would need to say in that scenario “you’re dying a lot to reaper (strong close range damage) consider switching OR adapting how you’re playing”. It does not need to and should not just say “play this hero even if you aren’t good at it or don’t know the matchup.”
It just needs to say why a hero can be strong or weak and suggest switching OR adapting how you play. No one ever considers just playing the same hero but differently.
Well, we are at an impasse. I don’t think either of us will change the other’s mind. I know for sure that a counter list, in-game, would improve my gameplay. This is fact.
Good luck to you, as I won’t be returning to this topic as we have nothing more to discuss. And, will not be even looking at future replies.
I mean he’s not wrong. People hear and read about how insanely strong Genji is on the forums for weeks, or Brig, etc… they choose to 1 trick them no matter what the circumstance is.
Then you end up with Genji trying to fight Zar, Winston, Moira, etc… all at the same time. Or Brig trying to heal against Pharah/Mercy…
1 Like
I don’t think a counter list is a bad idea, it’s true that a lot of players, especially new players, don’t know who counters who. Heck, I was in a game with a guy who was in his 500’s, and he didn’t know that Winston is a great counter to Symmetra.
So having a suggested list to counter a hero isn’t a bad idea. The only problem is whether or not you can play the heroes who counter that hero.