Kiriko fundamentally breaks the rules of the game. Positioning is a major key factor that distinguishes high elo supports from low elo ones (among many other factors of course). Kiriko’s kit completely throws this out the window. It’s ridiculous. In what world should a support be able to teleport across the map? She has become the Yuumi of Overwatch. (LoL players understand this reference).
I think she should only be able to use the ability out of combat. This would mean that she can teleport to an ally to help them/enter a fight, but she wouldn’t be able to use it to exit/escape a fight. This would reward better positioning and ultimately punish for poor positioning.
A imaginary set of premade expectations of how each support should work?
Let me guess.
Supports should die easily.
Supports should not have way to preserve themselves.
Supports should not be able to kill dps.
Supports should not be able to outheal dps.
…
What else is on this list of rules?
Good positioning is fundamental knowledge needed for perfect execution of each hero, no matter their abilities. She is not exception. Any high rank/elo group will punish her being out of position before she even finds a safe friendly to tp to.
Her TP range could be slightly adjuted to be fair.
Never implied this at all. Every support has outplay capabilities, think ana sleep, zen volley etc. These supports can still sustain themselves without the need for a cleanse and a teleport.
The point of it is to escape a fight…you just don’t like this because it require you do more thinking than just
me go backline, me jump support with hero that has every mechanical advantage, me win. OMG MUH SKILL
Sorry bud supports aren’t just free kills.
What are you talking about, he’s one of the more difficult Supports to get value out of right now and in order to effectively provide carry levels of value on most supports your positioning needs to be far better than that of the opposition.
I mean lifeweaver rewards bad positioning from teammates, + tbf he can always yoink himself into the air and dash away p consistently
like, you can have a dps or tank go absolutely way too deep into a team and he can just, stop them from getting punished for it?
and kiriko basically does the same by just TPing in and using suzu
Hi, fellow Masters player (tank) here. I personally disagree. Kiriko is a an interesting case study for a good exception to pre-conceived rules. She rewards an aggressive playstyle, where her teleport is utilised to enter risky situations, and when it comes off of cool down exit them. Suzu is her only consistent utility to the team beyond tags, and for fantastic value she needs to win 1v1s and help with the rest of the team in finishing things off. Making it non-usable in combat kind of removes half of its’ uses.
I would honestly argue her teleport is good, but the suzu is a bit of a problem in being able to do everything in one ability. I would personally prefer a shorter cool down but it does do one of the things it does right now.
What about Moira’s fade ? LW’s grip ? Mei’s block ? Sombra’s TP ? Tracer’s recall ? Reaper’s fade ? Aren’t all of these abilities get-out-of-jail-free-cards in case of bad positioning ?
Ah, wait. Except for Moira and LW, they’re not supports… So, supports who survive positioning mistakes are bad because… ? They don’t die easily ? What is your point exactly ?
Besides, she doesn’t TP “across the map” (granted, the range is pretty high, but still).
All of those abilities have counterplay and are reasonable to still get the kill, swift step is absolutely impossible to punish 99% of the time
and grip is in a similar camp of just, you can’t have any counterplay
Hmm, Moira’s fade, Sombra’s TP and Tracer’s recall are easily punished ? How so ?
Grip can go wrong too : grip someone with Echo’s sticky or Cass’ nade or Ashe’s dynamite, the gripped will still get the damage (I think), and so will the gripper sometimes.
You can telegraph recall, Sombra’s TP shows you where she’s gone, and Moira’s fade is usually not far enough to completely disengage if you go too deep
Telegraph recall, yes, if you’re quite good. But how does Sombra’s TP show you where she’s gone ? I mean, I’m still a new player, so maybe I don’t know that, but I can’t see how. And Moira’s fade + jump takes you pretty far, even if you went deep.
when sombra TP’s theres a little trail of hack particles or whatever that point to where she’s gone, and most good sombras will TP nearby to engage faster, so its normally a good tell
and yeah Moira’s is good but still, you can be punished for being too far out of position
Not really. Good tracer will dash to bait you into pursuit. Then recall to totally out run you.
Moira can double if not triple the distance of her fade by jumping.
Sombra shows you destination yes, but by the time you get to her re-location, she is long gone and invisible. All she needs to do is respawn her translocator somewhere else. Not to mention that she can use it as a granade to get high grounds.
Explain this - how does he “reward” bad positioning from teammates?
I’m not understanding how this is a problem, there are plenty of heroes that can punish you if you decide you’re going to just sit on the platform out in the open. If DPS players refuse to play heroes that can engage him there - that’s on them.
Once every 20 seconds, it’s better used to deny an offensive play by the enemy team - than to constantly reposition pepega teammates. If I have to blow my cooldown fixing that constantly all the OTHER TEAM has to do is not force their Weaver to constantly blow his playmaking ability fixing their positioning.
You’re going to need to explain this, because it sounds like you fundamentally do not understand the job of support.
They’re there to assist their team in getting kills as well as making it difficult for you to confirm yours. It’s fine to give DPS heroes multiple ways to remove 200hp heroes from the match nearly instantaneously; but not ok to give supports any way to combat this?
Sounds like you just want every game to be decided by who does the most damage.
I didn’t know about the “trail of particles”. In the middle of a fight, as a support myself, I must admit that I never really had the time to notice that.
Moira not only can fade far away, but she can self heal with orb + self heal with damage. Bad positioning with her is rarely an issue.
Kiriko has the lowest win rate with Moira across ALL ranks. She was nerfed multiple times and is mostly present due to an Ana that is debuffing the tank all the time or a JQ that is dominant.
She is strong but does not need any kind of nerfs. She is supposed to be a slippery support and a more evasive character that you cant just jump without any problem.
im a masters support player so I absolutely understand what a support is supposed to do
I just prefer doing well because im positioning well and enabling my team but in my elo my other teammates position well anyway, so when someone IS out of position, it’s normally something the enemy HAS to capitalise on, the fact there are now multiple characters that can simply delete that opportunity is ridiculous to me
