KarQ's support take

[Bui-1491]

I agree with some of it. I think Cliff Terios recent video on the subject also was a decent take on where supports are at.

[TheCheese-1550]

@Zephrin-11143

if it’s 1s to start, and he’s saying it’s 1s of not taking damage to become healthy, pretty sure joining the 2 dots together means he’s saying it instantly gets you bank up to “useful state”.

Depends how low you let yourself get, I guess. One of brig’s strengths (requirements, even) is managing her own health, so if I let it get too low before I try to get topped up, to me that means I’ve messed up somewhere.

@Pizzazz-1277

Brig is boring AF without the stun now (I used to enjoy her), she has no “big impact” ability, half the time you just sit there and exist, waiting to die and trying to proc inspire, guarding the heroes on your team who have the fun play maker abilities.

I agree with this. I’m not advocating for the return of the stun, but Brig really does just sort of exist now. Her weapons and abilities aren’t fun to use.

[Zekki-1657]

Just because people disagree with your opinion doesn’t mean it’s a hot take. I’ve seen dozens of people saying the same thing.

[Pawsitivity-1402]

Yeah, it’s strong, it’s just not enjoyable.

Kinda like tank in OW1.

[Cnflagration-1760]

@Chikenuggetz-2132

If supports were good people wouldn’t dodge support queue like Ebola.

Not true, tanks have always been good in ow1 and ppl avoid them. Many ppl value fun over whats good.

[Zephrin-11143]

@TheCheese-1550

Depends how low you let yourself get, I guess.

which is entirely not encapsulated in the tweets.

@TheCheese-1550

One of brig’s strengths (requirements, even) is managing her own health, so if I let it get too low before I try to get topped up, to me that means I’ve messed up somewhere.

not really. not everyone is like tracer or so whereby each instance of damage is like <10 damage.

I mean, even if you’ve taken say 30 damage. to heal that up assuming you already have inspire proced takes:

• 1s of of not taking damage to proc passive. during which you heal 15hp via inspire
• once passive triggered achieving a total 30hps, means the remaining 15hp to heal up takes 0.5s

i.e. 1.5s total. and ther’s still an extra 0.5s to wait.
and that’s only talking about 30hp loss as opposed to higher amounts. like if you’re trying to heal up >=45hp, you will need to wait >=1s with shield up for regen.
and that’s also assuming you’re not getting damaged from another angle or splash whilst shield is up.

The big core caveat of “you need to not take damage longer for the more hp you want to regen” is entirely not encapsulated in the tweet(s).

[Moira-21906]

@Pizzazz-1277

the only two good support characters are the least fun! And Brig is boring AF without the stun now

Call Lucio & Moira “boring” and in the next sentence talks about brig, forreal?

[BouncyBoi-11674]

@Chikenuggetz-2132

Yeah you have Moira and Lucio who are S++ tier but who tf likes playing these characters…

who likes playing WITH reddit lucios and DPS moira? no one lol

[Felhelen-1952]

I agree and disagree.

I think supports are much better than people give them credit for in OW2, but they now require skill to get value out of. This inevitably angers all of the support mains from OW1 who got most of their value by holding left click in the general direction of their team. Now you have to know your duels and positioning in order to be able to get your value without dying.

That said, there are a few supports that aren’t wonderfully equipped to deal with this new playstyle. Moira and Lucio go from the worst supports to the best supports because suddenly survivability is something that actually factors into support gameplay. Zen and Ana have become a little trickier now that they have to position correctly to avoid getting jumped.

I think supports in general might be a little weak, but for the most part I think the biggest issue with supports is the people who are playing them.

[McMercee-1378]

She needs to yell “i got killed by a Zen!”

[Moira-21906]

@Felhelen-1952

I think the biggest issue with supports is the people who are playing them.

Oh yes definitely, a lot of people don’t know how to play this game without demanding a shield. So it makes sense with less or none (depending on the tank picked) they are struggling.

[TheCheese-1550]

@Zephrin-11143

The big core caveat of “you need to not take damage longer for the more hp you want to regen” is entirely not encapsulated in the tweet(s).

Well yeah, but it’s obvious that this caveat exists because it exists for all supports.

@BouncyBoi-11674

who likes playing WITH reddit lucios and DPS moira? no one lol

I dunno, I was getting run out of town yesterday by a winston/lucio/moira dive line and thinking “I bet they’re having a blast!”.

[KeyserSoze-21819]

Because people still play like they stand behind 2 big shilds.

[Nines-11294]

You’re really sure of yourself there.
Because we all know how fun double shield was for supports too.
Yeah, I miss shooting shields and waiting for something to happen.
The good 'ol days.
Cover outside of shield didn’t exist in that time and my brain went to mush once a tank died. What will I do now? oh no.
It’s not like tanks aren’t only playing offtanks in ow1 rn. No, muh playstyle needs to change so much now!

[BouncyBoi-11674]

@TheCheese-1550

“I bet they’re having a blast!”.

Ok, were the DPS having fun?

[TheCheese-1550]

No idea, I was too busy being dead.

[jrg7777-1411]

How about an auto “Tickle” emote with it too?

[KeyserSoze-21819]

apparently yes
most of them cry around because they die so quickly and are overrun.
you just have to change your mind and become an active player.
also one mustn’t forget that 1.5 million people watched for the drops, which means that there are certainly many who are playing at the moment who only want to make a few kills, who are not interested in peeling.
it’s just qp+a new gaming experience, so you can’t expect everything to go smoothly.
I can as e.g. widow also don’t expect too much peel for a long time, as I get it in ow1 in ranked, and have to adapt to it

[Bui-1491]

I believe the main reason few people are playing the support role much is because there’s nothing radically new or interesting for them. They’re not reworked nor have new abilities nor a new hero so there is nothing to draw attention to it.

I feel there are many negative opinions that seem to exaggerate too much. While some thoughts on a mechanic, gameplay or something may be fair or reasonable, others tend to generalize the entire role in a negative light with shaky arguments behind it. These comments are then challenged by various opinions from the likes of KarQ, pro players, or other streamer or youtubers. I even notice contradictory commentary against the negative click bait titled videos from the likes of Stylosa and others. For example, he thumbnails his videos as “Supports are Bad” but then goes on a rant talking about how good some of the support characters feel.

So, people will then fall back on either “boring gameplay”, or their favorite hero is not super performant. Often it is compared in relation to other roles despite having most of the necessary tools to do their own job of support and still make an impact in the game. So, I can only assume that these players either want something new to play or they aren’t used to (or don’t like) the 5v5 format. I’d imagine a lot of players are going to see themselves struggle to adjust to what I think is a fairly substantially different way to play.

[PostRockOwl-1129]

@Nines-11294

there’s a reason people don’t want to play support and why more players won’t play it.

The reason is because 1. They don’t have new toys to play with like dps and tank, and 2. Support players are kinda used to ez mode. It’s no secret that certain support characters got a ton of value for just existing really. OW2 just demands they play better and learn to position better. As a highly skilled intellectual, I’ve had no trouble getting support value in OW2.