Like, I never want her on the team. She provides absolutely no value. I actually thought support couldnt get anything worse than launch LW but Juno is certainly trying her best to take his title.
She is just so bad at everything. Despite mega buffing 2 of her abilities in a hotfix she is still by far the worst support in the game. Sad times. But thats what happens when the devs continue to pump out these deadweight healbot support heroes. How are we getting 2x more supports than any other role yet we’ve only actually gotten 1 decent support since ow2 launched in kiriko? Lw illari and juno are all major flops
If you are winning games as juno chances are you wouldve won that game regardless. Juno isnt actually doing anything to cause that win
Illari, a healbot? I certainly don’t agree with that. I don’t think she’s a flop, either. Even in s10 when people were down on her, she was at worst decent.
As far as Juno goes, I don’t think it’s a problem with her core kit. All she needs are some tweaks and she’ll be solid.
250 HP.
Crits, even if that means a damage revert and/or less-than-x2 headshot multiplier.
Her ult having less of/no deployment delay and not scooting off over the horizon. Why did they speed it up instead of slow it down?
Torps cancelling not being so oddly punishing, considering that targetting locks Juno out of her primary (which is a big drawback). I would unbind torp cancelling if I could; it’s done more to harm me than help me.
Am a GM player so take it with a grain of salt but I do outperform every support on my team almost always as Juno purely statistically. (can’t beat DPS Moira tho).
But I will say she’s just there, as a background character. Can’t do anything special to make plays. She just contributes.
Sure you can keep your speed for noon/blossom, ult for blade etc.
But unlike on Ana, getting a big name, or mercy with a fight deciding Rez, not much going on there with Juno.
Never said illari was a healbot. Illari has her own problems with her entire balance centring around the pylon.
None of this will fix her problems because it IS her core design that is the issue.
She has no skill expression or playmaking potential in her kit and that isnt a numbers issue, thats a design problem. Sure you can make her numbers broken and force her to do stuff but then she just becomes another number reliant hero where her viability is reliant on does she output enough stats to see play. Her design is 1 dimensional and it severely caps her skill level
I can see her being viable up at the level where you play but down here, the level of peel that Juno really needs to get rolling seems a little… unrealistic. Brig feels like a fantastic co-pick for Juno that allows her to do her thing, but Blizzard kinda stomped out metal rank/QP Brig back in 2020.
I feel that most people who pick Juno would simply be better off with Ana.
This is generally true regardless of rank but her weakness is overexaggerated. She’s far more punishable for misplays from herself or her team than someone like Bap, Kiri or even Ana so why bother? She can still get lots of value and be viable but there really isn’t much point.
Juno is very easy to boost statistics, but she adds no real value. I can outdamage and outheal my team but those are basic b*tch stats. There is no utility in her kit, outside of the momentary speed boost. Lacking that, she is also not a favorite in a lot of duels. The best thing you can do is run away but the ridiculous spread of Sombra and Reaper, plus the tight maps, make the escape questionable.
She is fast hero with a nice mobility, so she is fun to play but this meta is quite punishable for her. She should be retuned to be more of a peeler and not be the one who needs the peeling herself.
It was a bit ambiguous because you lumped LW, Illari and Juno all together when you said “that’s what happens when the devs continue to pump out these deadweight healbot support heroes” and go on to call them all flops. You don’t say that Illari isn’t one of the healbots and if only LW and Juno are healbots then the devs aren’t really pumping them out, anyway.
But either way, Illari’s never been awful. She was being seriously undersold back in the likes of season ten but she wasn’t bad.
Back to Juno: she does have skill expression already in the form of tracking and positioning. With 225 HP and no panic button she needs to be in the right place at the right time or she’ll get wrecked by Winston, D.Va, Genji, Sombra, probably still Tracer (but I don’t know whether Tracer’s hotnerf changed that at all yet).
But if you want more skill expression for Juno, you should be happy that I’m advocating for headshots. If you want more playmaking, you should be happy for ult buffs. Her current kit can absolutely be tuned to iron out any problems that she might have.
I agree that her weakness is overexaggerated. The problem is that a lot of people seem to only think in terms of S tier or F tier. It’s like how every now and again there’ll be threads about Ashe needing buffs. I’m not convinced that Ashe has ever been lower than A tier. I don’t think there’s a need to buff Ashe up to S tier because meta slaves want to play something else or because Ashe mains want an easier time of it.
But I think there’s room to buff Juno to make her feel better to play as without creating some sort of S++ tier monster that ruins the game for a month or more. I’m A-OK with Juno being lower on the totem pole than Ana, Bap or Kiri. It’s actually for the best as far as I’m concerned. I don’t like my characters being meta.
Both torps and ult can be a bit awkward and I don’t think they really need to be. It feels downright weird not being able to crit with an SMG weapon, and there are ways to introduce crits without them being outright daft levels of damage. +25 HP is obviously nice but maybe that could be saved for a later date to let the fun-focused buffs settle in case it’d be a buff too far.
I have to agree. Never since the launch of OW, have I ever had the problem of trying to find a justification to pick a hero so hard. Even when Weaver launched, the petal platform as well as the grip provided something unique that made some cool things or combos happen.
With Juno, I feel like she will never has that kind of impact. We already have a solid heal+damage only hero with Moira and Juno has to compete with her healing, dueling, self sustain and consistency in terms of damage, because no matter what people think, the speed ring is more or less a harmless ability that prodides little to none actual fight value. Its different than Lucios speed that is permanent if he is near you. She has not even a great ult people would play her for.
I feel like she is the first support who has little to no fighting chance to being a good hero without strong healing and or DPS numbers that have an impact and not then spam damage/heal she does currently to farm stats.
Lets be all honest here for a second, if Juno would be a male in their 50s, people would have dropped Juno already. The only reason people play Juno currently is because she is cute.
If she gets some more buffs and a meta shift happens I can 100% see juno finding somewhere to slot into. She’s just gatekept by lucio being a better version of her & the heroes that are strong atm.
Saying she has skill expression cus she requires basic game sense you need to play every hero well is a dumb argument
Headshots wont be enough because again unless her numbers are broken it wont make up for having non impactful abilities when other supports can output equal damage plus have those impactful abilities that turn fights
Buffing her ult gives her more playmaking what… every 2 mins. No. She needs playmaking opportunities every fight just like you get with ana nade, sleep, suzu, immo, grip, discord etc. those heroes arent having to wait for ults to make a difference they just have kits that allow you to make a difference because they are better designed in that respect.
Without reworking her torpedos or ring she will be another lw because her ring doesnt do anything lucio cant do better and her torpedos can never be truly viable because in order for them to actually make a difference they need to be broken.
She needs her kit reworked
Keep speed ring with changes
Scrap torpedos and ult entirely, rework how her gun shoots
It’s not the same for every hero. I have more leeway with my positioning when playing, say, Moira, or Bap, or Kiriko, because they all have abilities that can be used to survive a gank. Clown emote right back atcha.
You want more skill expression for Juno. Crits would add more skill expression for Juno. What’s the problem here. It’s not like crits have to make her viable all by themselves, the devs are allowed to make multiple changes to the character.
If her ult takes too long to charge up then the cost can simply be lowered. But while ring might not be on the same level as IF, I think you’re proper underselling it.
As for competition: I can see her fitting with supports that Lucio doesn’t play well with. For example, if there’s a need for speed but a support instalocks Mercy then I’m not gonna play Lucio. All Juno needs is some of the rough edges smoothed out, which isn’t surprising considering she’s a recently released character.
The problem with the recent three supports is that Blizzard jumped the shark with this role a long time ago. As a Flex Support player I see little practical reason to bring Juno over other proven, more powerful and efficient loadouts. She’s new and that, in itself, is a reason, because new is fun, but that feeling has an expiration date.
Yeah I definitely get more damage on Juno than other supports, but I can’t really go for kills on my own. Torpedos have a very long charge time and you have to los the enemy for the entire time. Then if they hide behind the corner, it will miss. So, it’s hard to use Torpedoes in duels. I wish that the time to charge them scaled with how many targets were on screen.
Her ult lets you survive blade!? Alright I’ll have to save it for blade then. Thank you for this knowledge.
Her ult increases healing and damage, it’s like a double mercy beam. So at least that way blade has a bigger chance of doing anything.
The best thing you can do is alternate mobility cooldowns and use her auto aim thing whilst flying. Never use both ring and flying at the same time. Save ring for when you ult, as well.
Yeah no way is she even close to release LW.
It was next to impossible to find people with positive winrates on LW around his release, Juno is loads stronger.
Illari also has been very good for majority of time.
