Roadhog was a tank/defensive hero hybrid at launch. Now that they forced the role queue, he is stuck as a slightly out of place off-tank.
I will bump this thread until Jeff sees this. We want change.
Who will play the role if Hog and Zarya will be taken out of the tank class? Overwatch will be a perfect game for students then because you can just queue as dps at the start of a lecture and find a game when it ends.
Yeah so it actually more than tripled after double shield got dumpstered.
Heck you can actually even verify that right now. Overbuff 3month is 8.23% pick rate for Masters Hog. Push that to 6mo and you get 5.25%.
Some basic algebra tells us we can calculate his average pick rate 4-6 months ago as so. Iâll do it for masters given the player pool is big enough and its meta dependent enough to see big changes.
Average pick rate in last 6 months = (average pick rate in last three months + average win rate in three months before that)/2.
5.25% = (8.23% + X)/2
10.50% = (8.23% +X)
X = 2.27%
Picked 2.27% of the time during double shield. Sounds about right.
Also making space is exactly what tanks do. Ball and Winston arenât exactly giving you a great static defence either, but they sure take pressure off your team. You just gotta learn to tap A and D if you donât have a rectangle to sit behind.
A bruiser can make space sort of. But no bruiser comes close to 600HP 300HP heal with damage reduction tanking ability. Also no Bruiser creates as much of a death circle as Hog does. Bruisers donât get to spearhead the charge because they canât survive doing so. They either push in with tanks, or they get into enemy lines directly like Reaper. They canât lead a charge or hold the front line like Hog or really any tank can. Flankers could be considered to create space, but itâs not the same thing. They distract, but they donât carve a path forward they just create a good opportunity to push. A tank again spearheads and creates the room for other players to immediately occupy and take advantage of. No non tank can really do that.
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some of these kids dunno what an amalgamated average is. you think a swing of about 6-7% in pick rate is significant? at all?
none of this changes anything. stop being uh⌠young minded about things. hog and zarya are not tanks. im tired of these clowns in comp taking up a tank slot.
as above, you can SORT OF make an argument for zarya being a legit off tank⌠but not hog. hog is a dps. hes a big fat thing with lots of hp and good burst dmg and thats IF he gets hooks. if he doesnt, by that i mean if he doesnt specifically get hooks then hes just a so-so dps taking up a tank slot.
you all know its true. hog --> dps category pls, and zarya personal bubble nerfed and her teammate bubble kept the same but with a bit lower cd.
he is the funniest guy on the planet, gotta respect his dedication to salt
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Nah. All the tanks need to be equally as powerful as Hog and Zarya. Theyâre, stat-wise, exactly where tanks need to be. The rest of the tanks need a shove back where they belong.
You obviously donât understand how pick rate works on Overbuff. Pick rate is the chance any particular player is playing that hero right now. Thatâs why the sum of all tanks pick rates is 33.333%. Same for healers and DPS. A hero picked every single game will have a 16.67% pick rate on Overbuff and be present on both teams every time. If you want to know what percentage of teams have a hero at a particular time just multiply your answer by 6. Thus the 16% must pick is used 96% of the time on any particular team.
So the hog difference in masters between 8.23% (49.38% or played about 1/2th the time) is a gigantic step up from the previous 2.27% (13.62% or played under 1/7th of the time). It was actually one of the biggest increases Iâve seen, and it was an even larger increase in GM.
To be fair though, you are right to say that the number of hogs youâre running into hasnât really changed. In silver Hogâs pick rate has stayed pretty steady in the last 6 months and hasnât followed the meta at all basically. I didnât really think to check that originally.
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Why Hog is not the tank:
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No Synergy with any tank in the game. Exept Orisa pull, but it has synergy with everything in the game.
We all know the old tank combos like
Winston Dva
Rein Zarya
Orisa Sigma.
They are working fine together and they can help each other.
Hog cant help any tank. He is on his own. He can only charge Zarya and thats all. -
Hog in the tanks slot makes ANY shield hero almost useless.
Why? Becouse Hog+Zarya have 400+ DPS. And it is only 2 heroes of 6. So they will melt Reins shield in 3 seconds.
In face to face tank combat any other frontline tank combo will loose against them every single time. As Rein you cant push at Zarya Hog. As Orisa Sigma you cant push Zarya Hog. They will just kill you.
I get the feeling Iâm going to regret arguing with you since youâre just spouting nonsense at this point, but here goes nothing:
Hogâs pick rate was at 2.5%. Now, if you add 6% to that and make it 8.5%, saying itâs a 6-7% âswingâ is incorrect. The âswingâ is how much it went up by, so it actually âSwungâ +240%, as in it got 240% bigger.
But hereâs the thing: It swung from 2.5% to a whopping 20% at his peak, which is a net swing of +800%, as in heâs being played 800% more often. Even its swing from 2.5% a few months ago to his current ~10% is a swing of 400%.
Take it from someone whoâs studied economics a great deal, the term âamalgamated averageâ isnât even a thing, and I challenge you to show me a source where someone actually uses that term. They wouldnât, because any âaverageâ is going to be âamalgamatedâ from different sources, thatâs like calling it a âPeople unemployment rateâ, as if specifying that itâs people is somehow necessary.
Resorting to calling people who disagree with you âchildrenâ because you canât be bothered to talk about their arguments or admit the fact that you are blatantly, obviously wrong about the statistics is, quite frankly, somewhat reminiscent of a little kid throwing a tantrum.
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Totally Agreed.
⌠um, maybe not Totally Agreed.
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I can see why not, but it IS undeniable that Zarya, ball, and Winston are the only tanks who havenât been touched (balance wise) in a long time, while literally ALL the other tanks have gotten net nerfs.
Hogâs pick rate spiked like crazy (see my above post), and itâs silly to think this has nothing to do with the over all game state. A game without barriers favors Hog/Zarya far more, and since their competition was also nerfed, this thrust both of them into meta. It has nothing to do with preference and everything to do with relative power. Otherwise, Hog wouldnât have had such a low pick rate for so long. Same with Ball, whose pickrate has only spiked recently when all the other tanks have been nerfed. Itâs not because heâs just suddenly more fun⌠People pick things that make them feel powerful.
Ball is a main tank and Hog is played like a main tank too. You just gotta know how to play them. Not the heroes fault
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How about instead you reset your expectations of what a Tank should be in a class based shooter game.
The less WoW-logic this game has, the better.
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They have to much CC, Zarya relies to much on healing and they overall fit as a Tank. Just look at Hog: Close Range, Big hitbox, hook is a great CC, he has a sustain abillity and his ult is a great CC tool.
Just compare him to Reaper, a Dps wich is already considered being very tank like:
Reaper has good engage and get out abillitys, he has a small hitbox and beside his presence not much CC. His Ult kills much faster, but lasts not very long, it exists to kill while Hogs ult is without damage usually a CC tool.
Yeah, I agreed with all of your points except the one where you said that current Hog and current Zarya donât attract DPS players. I think they do.
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thats feeding
widow is tank guys you heard it
most people use it for dps instead of actual space maker. and the only time its used to create space is overtime to get the enemy off point.
When Hogs hook is ready, it pushes teams back more than any other tank in the game.
Stop thinking to be a tank you have to have a sheild. Thatâs not what a tank is.
Hog is most likely a for years misunderstood tank. Back in old days he was a Offtank for Orisa to prevwnt flanks, but nowdays he is actually a Maintank. Hog works well with Sigma, Hog Sigma is extrenely dangerous close range CC and you have to play from range. The only como wich really counters him is Spam, exoecially Ball Spam.
Every abillity in his kit is a Tank abillity:
Take a breathet helps him to sustain and allows him to hold Space, Hook is a great CC tool wich helps a lot against single flankers, his ult is pure CC too.
Widow doesnât press W. âMaking spaceâ means pushing forward to claim the point. Widow provides a consistent threat across various sightlines. Hog provides a very specific area of threat that he is pressing forward in order to âclaimâ the space. Widow canât stand on the point and hold the space because she almost instantly crumples under any sort of focused fire. Hog can, because he has 600 hp plus a 50% damage reduction and 300hp self heal. If you donât understand the difference between these two heroes and the roles they play, Iâd suggest you do more research so you can learn what a tank actually is supposed to do.