I know what the thread title is thank you very much.
Which is why I made the arguement that Blizzard already confirmed that Hero Choice isn’t a reportable option, and therefore “it’s just qp” cannot be reportable because it has already been confirmed to not be.
It’s almost as if you missed the point of that statement.
It should not be reportable, it isn’t reportable, and it has never been reportable.
Blizzard would have to do a complete 180 on their report options to allow “It’s just QP” reportable. They have already said that HERO CHOICE is not reportable, nor is playing badly on said character. You can get every bit of mad and frustrated at them, but reporting them is abuse of the report system, and if you do report them, you are the only one who deserves to be banned.
You are free to use arguments to prove that. This is what this thread is for.
It is irrelevant because we are discussing what SHOULD be not what IS.
It is irrelevant because we are discussing what SHOULD be not what HAS BEEN.
They would have to take another decision as they did, yes. So what? Not the first time this happens. Look at all the changes, buffs, nerfs, reworks they did so far.
This is no argument that makes an discussion about what SHOULD be obsolete.
I already have. Look at my other posts or even the one you originally quoted.
And what SHOULD be already IS.
And what SHOULD be already HAS BEEN.
Nothing needs to change.
What I meant is that they already gave you your answer and you should accept that. They have already said that playing badly and hero choice are not reportable. The entire point of this thread was that if someone picks 5th DPS (i.e HERO CHOICE) should be reported. If they are playing badly and not accomplishing much (I.E playing badly) then should be reported according to this thread.
I have already gave my reasons in previous posts so I have no need to repeat it, but they literally just changed the “Poor Teamwork” option to “Gameplay Sabotage” in order for people to stop reporting on hero choice and playing badly, which for some reason this thread wants to be reportable.
This seems like a very conservative and narrow way to look at things.
Didn’t see it anywhere.
However I did see a lot of imputations against people who support the mindset behind this thread such as “people who want teamwork don’t switch heros according to their team but just want their team to switch” and assumptions about people who ignore teamwork such as “they are allowed to ignore teamwork because there are some situations where you shouldn’t be on the objective anyways” or the assumption that “switching heros will not 100% of the time result in a win, so counterpicking is or should not be a thing” or “if you only practice enough on your hero you can just bypass the concept of rock-paper-scissor-like hero balancing and there won’t be any situation where your hero is unviable against a certain comp”.
But these imputations and assumptions can’t possibly be what you meant by a proof why poor teamwork should NOT be punishable. So maybe you requote where your actual argument towards that was, if your intention is to contribute something constructive as opposed to repeating over and over how status quo is?
In the end, you can’t blame the 5th DPS because it’s not kindergarten rules where whoever picks first gets the role. Everyone has an equal amount of responsibility towards the team and can change at any time.
And you can win with even the weirdest setups. At times I’ve lost with double healer and double tank comp against pure DPS simply because everyone on the enemy team played so well and our tanks weren’t experienced enough. And I’ve won games switching off healer because the team was so scattered that simply going Soldier gave us the same amount of healing but much more pressure.
The problem isn’t the initial picks. The problem is refusing to switch afterwards.
Sometimes you’re just gonna go up against a comp to which your hero is useless. I’ve had Widows refusing to switch despite getting repeatedly murdered by a pure anti-Widow comp and killing nobody through the entire game (Genji / Winston / D.Va / Orisa / Symmetra / Zenyatta).
And sometimes you get the death lock choke point (Bastion / Widowmaker / Symmetra or Tobjorn or Junkrat / Orisa / Mercy) where there was no effing way to get through without a shield tank and the team would first swap at the last 30 seconds realizing it was the only way they could actually play the game.
My way of dealing with it?
I try and win every game. If we get crushed repeatedly and no one is switching hero, I usually stop playing healer and just go for something fun. Because it’s not fun to die repeatedly trying to keep your Genji alive against a full tank comp with no front line.
People usually don’t complain. But sometimes they do, lol. “Who was playing Mercy? Pick healer.” They won’t hear any suggestions to switch themselves, let alone pick healer instead. It’s the finest level of hypocrisy in QP.
There’s your answer. There isn’t going to be a poor teamwork option anymore, and they clearly defined what is and isn’t reportable in the post.
So long as they are trying to win, you can’t report them. In no way does hero choice prevent you from trying, so them picking 5 DPS is fine. It’s up to you what you want to do from there.
So is the belief that you need a Tank and a healer to win. So is the belief that people should be forced into a role they don’t want to play so that they don’t get banned.
I suggest you read more precisely.
We are discussing reasons why poor teamplay SHOULD be punishable.
Your quote refers to if it CURRENTLY IS. Irrelevant here. We’re talking about what the right thing is. Not what just is the thing that’s being done.
Please refrain from twisting our words. I believe nobody here said that it isn’t possible to win without a tank or without a healer. I agree that it is a narrow way to look at things.
However, that doesn’t make the way of “things are like they are and have ever been that way, so they shouldn’t change” better. Status quo is never by itself a reason to not change. Otherwise we would still be stuck in Stone Age.
No it doesn’t, that patch hasn’t even go live yet, that’s what the future is going to be.
It clearly states what is going and not going to be reportable, I suggest you accept that.
What I’m saying is that there is no reason to change it, it’ll just annoy even more people because now they can’t play a character they enjoy because everyone else locked in first. I love playing Doomfist, but I don’t always load in the fastest which means that now I have to constantly play tanks and healers even though i just wanted to play Doomfist. i love tanks and healers, but sometimes I want to play something else.
You literally sound like a guy in the 18th century who joins a discussion about women’s suffrage stating: “Hey guys, I just read in the newspapers women are not allowed to vote. Furthermore, they haven’t been able to vote in the past. So cease your efforts to discuss what the right thing is, you already have your answer about if women can vote or not. I suggest you accept that.”
Dude, it is utterly irrelevant. This is not about what things have been, are or will be in the near future. This is about how things should be.
This ever lasting mantra-like repetition of “but Blizzard said” has no place in this dicsussion.
You can argue that if you want. But for that you have to cope with the countless arguments that have come up in this thread.
(Status quo or what Blizzard have stated is no reason for or against change. The reason must lie in the game and the people who play it.)
This has literally nothing to do with making poor teamwork punishable. Nothing.
Nobody ever said that the guy who loads in the fastest has free reign and the one who picks the last has to constantly play tanks and healers. It seems like you are afraid of something nobody suggested here.
Woah dude calm down there. Take a break from this discussion if you’re going to get that upset over this. You’re going pretty extreme here.
that post is informing the people and anyone here what is and isn’t reportable in QP, because multiple people in this thread have said it IS reportable, when it is in fact not.
We don’t want people to get the wrong idea now do we?
Already have.
Already have.
Dude, Blizzard literally removed poor teamwork for this very instance, which was originally communicating with your team rudely. People kept misinterpreting it to punish people who they would get tilted at.
Someone did suggest a lockout system which I already made several posts against, so someone did suggest it.
Then who would play tank or healer? Who gets reported if no one does? I can gaurentee you that people will have that mentality of “If you’re last to pick you have to fill”. People already have that mentality, I’ve experienced it in comp.
Since you seem to know everything and what this is all about maybe you should explain it to me? Because it seems to me people want it be to reportable if you don’t play at least 1 tank or healer in QP. Am I wrong?
Take a break from this discussion if you read upset into people debunking moot points.
And yet you didn’t respond to any of these people but to an argument why it should be reportable and continued to argue against this discussion with Blizzards statements.
Again - Blizzard’s statements or intentions are irrelevant in a discussion about how it should be.
And yet you didn’t respond directly to them but decided to badmouth the whole point about punishing poor teamwork due to one single suggestion you don’t agree with.
Nobody has precedence.
The whole team has to accomodate to each other. No exceptions.
When a single teammember refuses to teamplay while the rest bends over backwards, it doesn’t matter in what order people made their initial hero pick. (You can repick, remember?) The single only thing that matters is if you work with your team and meet choices towards them (again, no exceptions. It’s not like anyone can presume to be the only one to not make a compromise).
It’s only a problem if it isn’t working and if switching would make it work (better).
Dude. What you just said doesnt make any sense at all. You see, you load slow. You come into the game and see there are 4 dps and a healer. If you want to play Hanzo, you can press [ENTER] and write the following sentence:
“Guys, I want to play Hanzo today. Can one of you switch to a tank maybe?”
Chances are they say no, chances are you meet a half-friendly person like I would consider myself who doesnt write anything but runs back to the spawn, presses H and swaps to frickin D.Va or something.
So it is the fault of the 5th dude who picked a dps, it is the fault of the guy who comes in late and still remains rock solid in his opinion that if he plays Hanzo, they are gonna win this match. To quote some dude above me: “Nah, I’m not gonna play this objective based mode and I’m just gonna go for sick scatter kills and ignore my team”.
But if I’m not mistaken, the main goal of the QP game mode is to win the game, isn’t it? And playing a hero just for playing the heros sake, thats not gonna help winning the game. You sure need to do compromises, but if you go in with a hero you dont play often other times, you sure are damn proud if it says victory after the match that held you on the edge of your seat all the time since you werent confident with your skills in a hero.
If youre just doing a warm-up round before comp, let the other players know, they wont tell you to f off or that you suck, they probably do the same. If they are nice folks, they will try and figure out a comp that suits everyones needs.
No it shouldn’t. When I say “it’s just QP” for example, it’s to reassure and remind the toxic or angry individual blaming the rest of the team that the game mode in question is CASUAL. Meant to be an easy going experience as opposed to the serious nature of Competitive mode.
Just because I don’t take the game mode seriously doesn’t mean I don’t try or don’t attempt to work with what the team comp may be. I’m playing QP to play Overwatch, just because I’m not living up to ‘your expectations’ doesn’t mean my casual approach to the mode is any less valid than yours is. I assume everyone else is doing something productive unless they are actively screwing around or messing the team up or even admitting to griefing in any way.
If the angry (probably fat since it fits the stereotype) kid screams at you, I completely stand behind your statement and support it completely.
However, It just s***s to get into the hero select screen, Hanzo and Soldier get instapicked along with genji and Brigitte, and you’re standing there, having to choose between a healer and a tank since the dude youre playing with will choose the other and you ask kindly if someone maybe could switch to a 2nd healer or a 2nd tank after the team spent 3 minutes banging their heads against the wall the optimized team comp the other team has and they come at you with “Dude, chill out. Its just QP!”, I feel like im in a really bad movie.
Running against a wall because the team thinks they can do jacksh*t, not needing anything close to a teamcomp, I think thats not “just QP” as a statement. I mean, I dont know you, your probably like getting effed by the enemy team over and over again, I for my part dislike it.
Simple. It’s not bannable. It doesn’t violate any of the terms to be reported for. And no, it doesn’t violate Abusive Chat because it’s like saying in Deathmatch and playing Junkrat when someone says “Noob” or something similar and you respond with “It’s just Arcade”, that’s not bannable; Quick Play and arcade aren’t meant to be played seriously and most people don’t. Many player use those two modes to have fun, practice for comp, or relieve anger from comp.
I would like to assume that. But from experience I can no longer assume that.
If you just run into the enemy team 1vs6 time after time with a hero that is hardcountered by them you actively screw with your team.
So a griefer can’t be reported as long as he doesn’t admit he griefs? That’s not how it works.
Take one quote out of context and take it at face value, but you fail to recognize my initial statement on the matter. By saying what you’re saying you’re failing to recognize the inherent nature of Quick Play being a CASUAL gamemode. As long as the individual who is being HC’d is at least attempting to play the objective and not just running head first into the fray just to die, it’s perfectly ok even if it does frustrate you.
Also, to counter that point I regularly field Pharah against 2, 3, and even 4 to 5 hitscan and find success in doing so. Just because a counter is fielded doesn’t always mean that counter(s) will be effective.
Again, taking a comment at face value and ignoring the previous context behind it. Let’s look at the comment in it’s entirety shall we?
“Actively screwing around or messing the team up or even admitting to griefing in any way”
What is stated there is reportable under poor teamwork or griefing, take your pick. I never said “unless someone states they’re griefing, they’re not griefing”, you simply inferred this from 6 words taken way out of context. But again it’s not at all what I meant or said.
The context of your whole post is that QP is casual, therefore not to be taken seriously and “not take seriously” doesn’t mean people don’t try to win.
You tried to back that up with an assumption that people actually are trying to win unless they are actively screwing around or admitting to griefing.
This is the context I replied to.
Just because I didn’t quote your whole post or didn’t respond to every single statement you made doesn’t make my response “out of context”. Please keep that in mind when being on an internet forum. Quotes are often just a way to point to what exactly it is you’re referring to.
Well, you made an assumption with an exception that specifically said “admitting to griefing” as opposed to just “griefing”. So it’s only fair of me to ASK (you act like I inferred something or twisted your words) if that’s what you meant.
Alright, so your statement would also work this way? (Careful - this is a question, not an inference!) “I assume everyone else is doing something productive unless they are actively screwing around or messing the team up or even griefing in any way.”
I don’t know where you read that from my post.
Even when it’s casual (which you agreed to that it still means people should try to win, correct? - again, question, not inference, still considering the context outside of the quoted part), I cannot agree with your assumption from my experience.
Even when it’s casual, it’s screwing actively with your team to run into the enemy team 1vs6 time after time with a hero that is hardcountered.
That’s what I literally just described:
This is NOT “attempting to play the objective”.
This IS “running head first into the fray just to die”.
