Team after team, map after map, game after game, McCree is nowhere near a must pick in OWL in the June Joust. He’s the 3rd best DPS behind Echo & Reaper (who are picked nearly every game, McCree is far behind in 3rd)
12 days ago I made a post asking why McCree wasn’t picked in the Dallas Fuel vs. San Francisco Shock match after watching it, because I found it odd that the “most overpowered DPS” according to the forums wasn’t played nearly at all, and there were a few people saying “it’s just 1 match, just you wait and see, he’s the most overpowered DPS ever I tell you!” but the past couple weeks totally debunk that
https://imgur.com/a/I1YU94s
It seems like McCree’s relevancy entirely hangs upon the presence of other heroes which are currently banned, mostly Reinhardt/Tracer and potentially Sombra & Zenyatta.
It makes sense why McCree is picked so highly on ladder, and it’s not because he’s “ridiculously OP” as some would say, it’s because ladder is forcing Rein/Zar across all ranks, even though Winston/Zar and Winston/Dva are technically better if your team is willing and capable of coordinating.
Hopefully as a community we can start playing other tank combinations that are better when played well instead of a suboptimal tank combo just because it’s easier to pull off. Personally, I think Winston & Dva are a ton of fun, and I think it’s a shame that more people don’t play those tanks & practice with them to realize how good they really are
I know the forums still want McCree’s head on a pike, gutted & removed from the game, but hopefully this shows the pitchfork carriers that McCree isn’t as OP as they think, especially after his recent nerfs
Mainly Rein being banned in OWL is why. Big shields for McCree are nice to have. And setting up double shield just for McCree is overkill. McCree is still too slow to do much outside of his own range, so he needs those big shield friends to block damage for him. Or have a pocket healer at all times.
I don’t have any F’s to give for OWL, never have and never will. OWL is the reason this game is in the trash state it is, since the developer excessively focus to balance the game around 1%, mainly the pros. Leaving a great deal of the game completely rubbish for a good deal of players.
McCheese needs a nerf on FtH, simple as that. There is enough tank busters in the game and tanking is already the least sought after roll to play. What we don’t need is yet another hero that rolls in and holds M2 to delete the tank.
Yea, total agreement. He’s a large hitbox waiting to die if he doesn’t have a barrier in front of him. It’s why McCree historically has not been meta very often, because high rank & OWL players don’t force Rein like low-mid ranks do, and high rank/OWL players are good enough to dive McCree out of existence, or focus fire him.
Totally agree. Glad you recognize that he was very weak before his buffs, because there are those on the forums that think he was “just fine” somehow
You do yourself a disservice by not reading the full post.
How do you think it should be nerfed? I can’t think of any sensible nerf that wouldn’t make it a useless ability, which no other hero has.
That is not happening against any competent teams. A McCree that rolls in & Fans tanks is a dead McCree, and the absolute opposite of how the hero should be played (playing like that is intentionally feeding against good players)
A revert to 45 wouldn’t be bad, not like it was buffed for squishies it was buffed to make him a better against higher health pools during a time where we were in a tank heavy meta especially with brigs armor flying around giving people an extra 75, brigs armor packs are gone only having rally and tanks are limited to 2 don’t really need that buff anymore
Yup and you’re correct, the devs don’t entirely balance around OWL. Otherwise they would of nerfed d.va instead of zarya, who was the 4th most picked tank in OWL prior to hero bans.
I’m assuming you think zarya didn’t need a nerf then because of her pickrate in June Joust? But actually arguably even minor buffs?
This I can shrug at. 45 damage doesn’t sound awful, but then again, why use 6 bullets for 270 damage when you can use 2 bullets & headshot for 280? Also, against armor, FtH already does 270 I’m pretty sure, so nerfing FtH to 45 would mean it’s only doing 240 with 6 bullets
No I’m cool with the Zarya nerf. I don’t think it really changes a whole lot though… Zarya shouldn’t really be sitting at 0 charge very often. But, I suppose it tones her down so she isn’t so strong when being played poorly & at low charge while not nerfing her when played well at high charge
You know what they say about assuming… if you’re curious on my viewpoint of something, ask.
I’m being consistent. I never claimed Zarya needed a nerf, I just said I’m cool with it. I don’t have all of the intricate data that Blizzard does. I let them balance the game, I just play it. I don’t pretend I know better than they do, unlike many here on the forums.
I neither agree nor disagree. I was fine with her before, and I’m fine with her now. Like I said, I don’t really see what it will change at the top levels. I think it will make less skilled players who aren’t getting high charge a bit weaker. It was mostly a low ELO change if you ask me
Ok that’s fair enough. But why do you think we should be using a game with hero bans to balance the game?
Because imagine if you banned mercy, but massively buffed pharah, obviously that wouldn’t show pharahs true power level would it? But synergy is extremely important to take into account, and we aren’t just going to delete heroes.
FtH needs a CD on it, the major problem is that it can do too much damage on its own in close quarter fights, and a vast majority of fights in OW is mainly that. So it can retain its damage throughput but be given a 2 second CD that isn’t reset by roll. It would still be an effective tool against squishy targets but ineffective against beefier targets.
Well the average skill lies around mid gold for a vast majority of players, or lower, with fewer found in the higher ranks. And a lot of fights are hectic and chaotic, with very little teamplay going on. Combined with a lot of maps being designed so it’s easy to either drop down or in other ways get close up easily.
It’s a reason Hanzo was changed on scatter, because he too favoured a play-style on the maps where you got close to a tank, shot at the ground and voila presto, instagibbed tank. You see the same type of play from McCree, get close, flash, FtH, roll, FtH, dead tank. Even if it’s a suicide mission for the McCree, deleting one tank - especially if that tank is Reinhardt - pretty much guarantees that your team wins the fight.
I didn’t say that we should use stats with hero bans present to balance the game. What I said was that McCree’s viability seems to hang on the presence of a couple particular heroes being present. If they are not present, neither is he for the most part. Considering Reinhardt is popular on ladder right now, and McCree is far less popular with Reinhardt banned in OWL, it seems like McCree’s pickrate goes hand in hand with Reinhardt’s/Tracers.
What the forums believe is, “Omg McCree OP, nerf!!”
It has a 1.5 second cooldown, his reload animation.
What you suggest is making McCree get walked over by beefy targets, when his whole shtick is holding his ground and shooting his way out…
Engagements come to McCree, not the other way around. He has essentially zero mobility, so his ability to defend himself has to be strong
If this is happening, your team messed up. Maybe I have this perspective because I’ve climbed to GM multiple times on multiple roles and I expect better & have played with good teammates who coordinate together. But this is not a thing that should be happening. I don’t think we should balance the game based on casual players playing Overwatch like it’s not a team game, which is what you just described.
The reason I disagree that McCree/FtH needs major nerfs is because I’m not seeing the scenarios you claim are happening. FtH spamming McCree’s are punished & put in the grave. It’s hotshot primary firing McCree’s that are deadly…
Yeah of course that’s going to be the case, that’s the same for…every hero. Actually I can’t think of a hero that works in every comp and every situation.
A hero can be overtuned, but still have a niche. That’s been the same for every single hero. Heck even brig 1.0 wasn’t played 100% of the time even in OWL, she had about a 70% pickrate despite being insanely overpowered.
The only hero that would work in every situation even if hero bans were a thing is mercy 2.0, and we both know mcree isn’t even close to that status.
