It is okay to nerf abilities attached to heroes with low winrates

General Discussion
1

Hear me out. Don’t blow up at me. The point I’m making here is that heroes that are performing poorly on ladder, yet get nerfed anyway, are nerfed because an ability is proving problematic. Not the hero it happens to be attached to.

Sombra got hack and EMP nerfed. She was already underperforming on ladder and this will make her even weaker. But this was done because EMP and Hack (BY THE DEVS LOGIC, NOT MINE, DO NOT ARGUE WITH ME HERE I’M JUST THE MESSENGER) were “too strong”.

The hero is clearly in need of tuning, whether you’re in the boat that she is weak OR strong. She is currently rather consistent problems for the game both on Ladder and in OWL, so the devs, like they do, are taking baby steps to find a good place for her.

The same is being done to my girl Symmetra, and I’m nervous about it too! Ask any Symmetra main and the Teleporter changes on the PTR are good for her on certain maps, but bad for her just about everywhere else. Symmetra is also exhibiting consistent issues in both Ladder and OWL, and so she’s on the list for iteration.

Ladder Sym:

  • Low pickrate implies she’s weak
  • High winrate implies she’s niche
  • Previous points combined lead to toxicity against the hero who is performing otherwise decently well

OWL Sym:

  • Almost nonexistent

I don’t speak with authority on Sombra, i’m not a Sombra main. But as a fellow main of a “problematic” hero, I just think we all need to be patient.

Vocal for sure, but patient nonetheless. Roadhog had problems, and they hit him hard and made Hog mains upset. But they slowly polished him into a place that, at least from what I’ve seen, a lot of Hog mains actually enjoy even more than the original

Blizzard is slow, but they clearly care. I believe both Sombra AND Symmetra will reach a point of polish that make them solid, fun, consistent, and hype for OWL viewers. It just takes time.

6 Likes
2

I do think it’s reasonable to prefer that a low-performing character would receive some kind of positive changes to accompany direct nerfs.

That said, I’m really not bothered at all by the Sombra changes. I don’t expect them to have any significant impact on my enjoyment or performance when playing her, while they might make her slightly less annoying as an opponent.

I just want a cool animation for the longer EMP cast time.

2 Likes
3

My issue is that the 5 seconds will only address people’s concerns at higher ranks. But at lower ranks it’ll feel just as bad and she’ll be just as “game breaking”

1 Like
4

Makes perfect sense. And yeah, it’s totally logical to ask for compensation to nerfs when the hero is already underperforming. But I’ve seen so much “this can’t go through” on the forums, and implication that Blizzard is solely looking at OWL and not the playerbase.

They’ve proven time and time again that they care about both, and it’s easier to make changes one at a time then to dramatically drop a handful of changes on a hero and see if it works. Of course, they still do this sometimes if they feel it necessary, but they’ve never abandoned a hero, and I doubt they ever will.

Symmetra was untouched for a year, but when they solved a bunch of other issues in the game, they turned attention to her and reworked her again since her present form wasn’t working out. they’ve since iterated on that version and she’s becoming a lot smoother to play what with the beam buffs, and the beam consistency fixes. The hero of course needs more attention then that since she still exhibits issues, but that’s why they’re testing new ideas

Same goes for any other hero, and it’s how we arrive at the best possible versions for the mass playerbase

5

I actually would expect the opposite. At high ranks, Sombra’s not sticking around for 6 seconds anyway, because she’s under threat immediately after hacking anything. At lower ranks, I can picture someone getting hacked and then spending the next 5+ seconds 1v1ing a Sombra while neither player manages to kill the other, and that’s where the duration really starts to matter.

The EMP cast time, on the other hand, will probably specifically affect higher levels, as it provides a little bit of extra room to reactively counter EMP, which I don’t think lower levels even bother trying to do.

1 Like
6

I just think 1 second is more important at higher ranks because the game is played on a second to second basis and that one second will have more value. So there’s a trade off. I just think people will have all the same problems with it they do now.

7

Actually the higher you get in rank the more efficient your team gets at following up on your hack and as a result need less time to get the job done. The duration nerf specifically will hit low to mid ranks more than high ranks. Players with average aim and reaction time and game sense will take more time to take advantage of a hack.

1 Like
8

At least hog mains can look back at days of hook 1.0. What do Sym and Sombra players have to look back at. They were always trash. Hog used to be a must pick.

9

Well, second to second, at higher ranks you can expect your team to follow up faster on a Hacked target. At lower ranks, not so much.

10

I just hope that Sombra will something small to compromise for these nerfs.

I am okay with the duration nerf, but the EMP cast time increase looks really bugged.

1 Like
11

of course it’s reasonable, just because the community isn’t able to tap into Sombra’s power doesn’t mean she doesn’t has it, furthermore, if they can’t access that level with their current knowledge and mechanical skill, what’s the big deal? a nerf that still keeps her unreachable for them means nothing, the nerf is aimed at those who have found the means to use her effectively and pro players who play sombra agree that she needed a nerf, so what is it to the bronzies who think that a second less on hack will hurt their performance? Sombra could have 50 second hacks and your team would do squat about it

12

Right but things like, hacking a rein shield down that affects the whole team. And if you Are the one who gets hacked, then it’ll feel the same. You won’t notice it not lasting 6 seconds, because it already felt bad to you.

13

Some abilities are just poorly thought out.

14

Sure, if it’s just making everyone else miserable and all the players playing these heroes do is blame their teams for not being able to win their games and that the hero needs buffs.

Like I am sorry but there is just something about Sombra players that is always coming off of them in waves. They are miserable with the state of their hero, everyone else is miserable interacting with it and they’re not even winning that many games.

It obviously benefits the most people to phase out 1 super miserable group of people making a large group of people miserable.

It’s not like with Tracer where everyone hates her but no one asks for buffs because they know it’s a difficult hero to play. Sombra players get angry if you suggest it is significantly easier to play her now after having her entire kit dumbed down and constantly beg for damage buffs.

I have just never seen a group of people so sure of themselves but so miserable at the same time.

15

Blizzard: “Oh widowmaker is killing everyone in the league, oh well, it’s no big deal, she has the potential to do badly on low ranks and we like seeing widow vs widow”

Also blizzard: “This niche hero niche high potential ability has to go even though it has never literally done anything worth mentioning even at the highest level. Don’t care if she’s trash on ladder. We changed her so we could see her on OWL, oh well guess she’s back to trashbin.”

Blizz logic.

16

That were glitchy. And unfavorable to enemy players.

Symm and sombra have glitches that are unfavorable to THEM.

So nah, it doesn’t make sense imo. Flat nerfs to underperforming heroes (symm would need a much higher winrate to be ‘niche’) is making them flat detrimental to a team. Which,.before his buffs , roadhog flat was

17

Sombra players don’t really ask for damage buffs. People who don’t play her much feel like she needs them so she can fill a more traditional dps slot.

Saying “I dislike this character and everyone who plays her is miserable” is kind of a sign you’ve been either on the forums(which are toxic) or playing the game too much.

18

Blizzard care about spectating more than playing and that is terrible for the health of a video game people actually want to play.

So many bug reports for non favourited (Not interesting to spectate) heroes go ignored but a bug report for someone interesting to spectate gets acknowledged on the first post.

The changes to Sombra mean more flashy abilities which is more entertaining for spectators.
An infinite TP means fast heroes will use it more rather than Symmetra herself which is better to spectate.

I bought overwatch originally thinking that it would be balanced around being a video game which is played.

OWL is the worst thing to happen to this game and why I will probably never buy a blizzard product in the future, I simply cannot trust them to make good decisions or care about the players over spectators.

If I want to watch something I will watch something, If I want to play something I will buy a video game.

1 Like
19

Her hack time was changed by all accounts due to how long 6 seconds is at higher tiers.

20

What accounts are you referring to? The developer notes made no reference to rank/skill level being associated with either of the changes.